Why do Sikhs keep hair?

[rockaclimba]

sehaj ! there was no need to give warnings to B. shah. And there is no harm or hurt intended by asking this question. You will see...there are views on this subject.

WHAT I THINK: Hairs were not identity of 'sikhs' [ There was no formation by then ] unless G. Gobind Singh Ji initiated KHALSA.
This was multipurpose move. I would like to quote that Guru ji and Shivaji Maratha were from same period but there is no evidence that both met in Maharashtra. But there is lot...lot of resemblance between methods of both.
Hairs give not only a identity but also save head from a good amount of sword attack.
Hair and turban-gives a dramatic influence + full beard to enemy. This again gives enemy a confusion about exact identity of a person.

WHY SIKHS KEEP HAIRS: This is sentimental and has been under practice since then. I do not know [ I am not sure] that Guru Gobind Singh made this mandatory by providing any guidline in HOLY SCRIPTURE but identity of SIKH becomes HIS HAIRS. This is entirely a sentimental and religious values of SIKHS.

I do not think that if someone has not kept hairs...he is less sikh than one who keeps. Religion or faith comes from conviction. Keeping hairs and doing against the master is worse than NOT keeping hairs but following masters path.

 

[hooneey]

HEY hairs r not only gift dey r responcblty.c dere is only one scientist in d world dats god. even behind 5 k's, guru ji had real scientific reason.n hairs too hv dat kind importance.if u go through GURBANI ull come to knw dat , GURU GOBIND SINGH JI once said- je koi mera sikh nark(hell) vich ja reha howega,mein usde wala ton fadke ohnu kich lene.dis kind of importance he gave to hairs.even dere r episode of bhai taroo sing ji how didnt let muslims to cut his hairs,but got ripd dem off from his skull with skin.MAY PPL KNW DAT WE SIKHS WERE TOLD TO RESPECT OUR HAIRS NOT ONLY BY COVERING DEM N ALL, BUT EVEN AT D TIME WE R TALKIN WD OTHERS WE R SUPPOSED TO SAY -ASIN APNE KESH(HAIRS) HARE KAR RAHE HAIN, instead of saying asin apne wal suka rahen han.AND YA KHALSA IS SIKH N SIKH IS KHALSA. KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAS

 

[hooneey]

and bulleshah doest seem to hv proper knowledge abt 5 k's. HE GOT DEM ALL WRONG. GURU JI NEVER WANTD SIKHS TO BE ANY ONE FROM CONTEMPORARY. DATS WHY WE SAY -sawa lakh ek se ek ladaon takhe Gobind Singh nam kahun

 

[Gabru_desh_punjab_da]

As Guru Nanak kept long hair, his disciples, sikhs, also started keeping long hair and wearing turbans as their identity.

May it be mentioned here that some Hindus, particularly holy people, already kept their hair long and tied turbans,

even before Guru Nanak was born. Muslims tied turbans in their own style.

The custom of keeping long hair and wearing turbans was not founded by Guru Nanak; this was a part of the world culture.

Europeans also tied turbans and this is mentioned in the Bible as a religious requirement for the Jews while praying

 

[jattpunjabi]

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"kabeer preeti ik siau keey aan dubhidhaa jaai;
bhaavey laambe kes karu bhaavey gharari mundaai"
(Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart.
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.)
-- KABIR Source: Adi Granth, p. 1365


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well BS, utte post no. 32 ch tainu fulltaur ne english ch ashi taran samjha ditta hai ......tu fer use taran iko gall utte atkia pia hai.....je tere ch kush sense hai taan is gal nu samajh.....chal main tainu shudh punjabi ch ihi gal samjhounda haan.....tu ihi gall kinni vaar unnecessiry repeat kar chuka hain.....ajj ih gall samajh lai......agge tou bina kise valid reason de je ihi gall aki taan sanu del karan layi majboor hona paina.....hun karde aa gal us shabad di asal wich je tu sara shabad padhe taan hi pata lagega ke isda ki matlab hai.......sirf isnu english ch convert/translate kara ke samjhana nasamjhi/agaianta/moorakhta hai.......as u know punjabi ch aakde aa "parsang sahit viakhia" oh lagda mainu karni hi paini aa hun.....main tainu kinne vaar ih gall dass chukia haan par pata nahin kyu tere palle nai paindi.....ok is di "parsang sahit viakhia" kush is taran hai
asal ch kabeer ji de shabad da ih shalok no. 25 hai......ise shabad ch shalok no. 13 tou hi gal chaldi aa rae hai ke kush lok "deen" di jaagah utte "duni" da vapaar karde aa rae han....ate ihi gal shalok no. 40 tak pahunchdi hai.....is tou pishle salok ਕਬੀਰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਰਾਮੁ ॥ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਾਜੇ ਭੂਪਤੀ ਆਵਹਿ ਕਉਨੇ ਕਾਮ ॥੨੪॥ ch kabeer ji likhde han ke jinha ne vidya raaj bhoen nu aasra bana ke rakhia hai unha di saanjh ate dosti v aitbaar nai rehndi....kyu ke "duni" wala raasta kacha hai......manukh de ander dochita(doublemindness) seham tikia hoya hai....hun is shalok ch likhde han ke is dubhidha nu door karan da iko ik tareeka hai ke "duni" di jagah utte "deen" yani ik parmatma naal preeti.....lammia jattan wale saadh vall dekh ke ik gresath aadmi de dil wich ih vichaar aa jana kudrati hai ke ih lok taan "duni" nu shad ke "deen" de raste paye hoe han....asal wich kabeer ji samjhounde han ke koi b bhekh ya baahrla tyag bande nu nai bacha sakda je bacha sakda hai taan sirf ik prabh naal preeti ate oh v sache dilon..... hey kabeer ! duniya wala hor hor veham udon hi door hunda hai jadon ik parmatma naal pyar paya jaave....jad tak ik prabhu naal preeti paai nai jandi udon tak "duniya" wali dubhidha mit nai sakdi....beshak saadh banke gharon nikal ke janglaan ch dera la lai beshak ghare reh ke prabhu da name lai la.....aithe note karan wali ih gal hai ke kyuke kabeer ji sikhi tou pela janme c par fer v sikhan de SGGS ch unha di baani daraj hai.....is layi ke unha di baani naal sahi raah disda hai.....SGGS ch ohi baani daraj kiti gayi hai jis naal koi rasta vikhe.....koi gian hove.....us vele kai lok saadh ban jande c ate ghar shad dinde c......is sare shabad da poora padh ke usnu samjhana hi sahi gal hai.....tusi sirf is shabad da sirf ik shalok lai ke usda meaning aavde matlab nai na kadho....ih vekkan di lod hai ke us shabad ch gal ki chal rae hai...yaani deen ate duniya di....is shabad ch ih gal shalok 13 tou shuru hoke shalok 40 tak jaandi hai.....ate BS ne aa sirf shalok no. 25 chak ke aithe kinne vaari chepia hai.......ki BS nu poori knowledge nai hai ya oh sirf oho kush post kar rea hai jo ke aam hi antisikhi layi janta use kardi hai? ih gall taan ohi gall hi ashi taran jaan sakda hai......main taan ihi akoonga ke poori gal samjho aiven na aavde matlab layi gurbani da galat matlab kadh ke us nu aavde matlab layi verto....mere khyal ch BS tu shied samjhan di kosish karen....mere v hair cut aa main v kai horaan vaang akhan band karke ihi soch ke chup kar ke baith sakda haan.....par jo galat hai so galat hai.

 

[jattpunjabi]

As Guru Nanak kept long hair, his disciples, sikhs, also started keeping long hair and wearing turbans as their identity.

May it be mentioned here that some Hindus, particularly holy people, already kept their hair long and tied turbans,

even before Guru Nanak was born. Muslims tied turbans in their own style.

The custom of keeping long hair and wearing turbans was not founded by Guru Nanak; this was a part of the world culture.

Europeans also tied turbans and this is mentioned in the Bible as a religious requirement for the Jews while praying

ur rite but in sikhi its f to preserve identity guru Gobind Singh Ji said " my sikh will be recognized among millions"

 

[jattpunjabi]

sehaj ! there was no need to give warnings to B. shah. And there is no harm or hurt intended by asking this question. You will see...there are views on this subject.

WHAT I THINK: Hairs were not identity of 'sikhs' [ There was no formation by then ] unless G. Gobind Singh Ji initiated KHALSA.
This was multipurpose move. I would like to quote that Guru ji and Shivaji Maratha were from same period but there is no evidence that both met in Maharashtra. But there is lot...lot of resemblance between methods of both.
Hairs give not only a identity but also save head from a good amount of sword attack.
Hair and turban-gives a dramatic influence + full beard to enemy. This again gives enemy a confusion about exact identity of a person.

WHY SIKHS KEEP HAIRS: This is sentimental and has been under practice since then. I do not know [ I am not sure] that Guru Gobind Singh made this mandatory by providing any guidline in HOLY SCRIPTURE but identity of SIKH becomes HIS HAIRS. This is entirely a sentimental and religious values of SIKHS.

I do not think that if someone has not kept hairs...he is less sikh than one who keeps. Religion or faith comes from conviction. Keeping hairs and doing against the master is worse than NOT keeping hairs but following masters path.

i think u dont know all concepts of sikhi......u can think wt evea u want but that doesnt mean ur thinkg always be true.....read my upper post....its not a sentimental anyway.....ppl always try to follow wtever guru ji said......nd guruji said to keep hairs nd its true.......even one muslim spy wrote in his notes....there r historical evidence that guru ji said to keep hairs......if u want i can post bout evidence.....

 

[Ramta]

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buny,

and bulleshah doest seem to hv proper knowledge abt 5 k's. HE GOT DEM ALL WRONG. GURU JI NEVER WANTD SIKHS TO BE ANY ONE FROM CONTEMPORARY. DATS WHY WE SAY -sawa lakh ek se ek ladaon takhe Gobind Singh nam kahun

Why don't you give me proper knowledge abt 5 K's ??
And please provide references from the Gurbani and not bedtime stories you heard from your parents...

Thanks

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[Ramta]

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rockaclimba,

I do not know [ I am not sure] that Guru Gobind Singh made this mandatory by providing any guidline in HOLY SCRIPTURE but identity of SIKH becomes HIS HAIRS. This is entirely a sentimental and religious values of SIKHS.

Historians have noted that after the founding of the Khalsa, Guru Gobind Singh never forced his new discipline on all Sikhs. Among his most devoted followers were Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Ghanaiya, Bhai Kirpa Ram, Bhai Lakhan Rai, Bhai Manua Bairagi, and Bhai Hans Raj Bajpayee. Their names are mentioned with respect in Sikh annals. They maintained their identity and position in the Panth as sahaj-dhari Sikhs. In A History of the Sikh People, Gopal Singh writes: 'Thus a distinction was permitted to remain between a Sikh (disciple) and a baptized Singh, and this is how till lately a large body of Sikhs, called sahaj-dharis, though outwardly not conforming to the symbols of the Khalsa, yet accepted the spiritual and social code of the Gurus and remained an inalienable and worthwhile part of the Panth.'

The Sikh Rahit Maryada, drawn up by the S.G.P.C. in 1945 after wide consultations, defines a Sikh to be a person whose faith is in one God, the ten Gurus and their teachings and the Adi Granth. It is thus clear that sahaj-dharis are not excluded. Bhai Ardaman Singh in his article One Guru - One Movement writes, 'Sikhs as a whole are also known as the Panth. The Panth includes all sorts of Sikhs whether perfect or imperfect, whether still novice or fully responsible, whether sahaj-dhari or of any other samprada. Anyone who believes in the Guru and gurbani [Guru's writings] and has faith in no one else, cannot be denied to be a Sikh, and therefore, is a member of the Panth.'

Those Sikh who believe the sahaj-dharis are not Sikh because they don't follow the 5 K's compulsory(?) pratha are not aware of the Sikh religion. A Sikh is a follower of Guru Nanak Devji who has embraced the Sikh religion of Satguru Nanak Devji, who believes in the Guru Granth Sahib as his holy book and believes in the ten Gurus as one.

SGPC supported Sikh Gurudwara Act(1925) defines a Sikh as follows :
'Sikh means a person who professes the Sikh religion' and in case any question arose as to whether any person is or is not a Sikh, he would be deemed to be a Sikh if he made the following declaration: 'I solemnly affirm that I am a Sikh, that I believe in Guru Granth Sahib, that I believe in the Ten Gurus and that I have no other religion.'

A Sehaj-Dhari Sikh, as per the Act, is a person: (i) who performs ceremonies according to Sikh rites; (ii) who does not use tobacco or kutha (halal meat) in any form; (iii) who is not a patit; and (iv) who can recite Mul Mantar [the core teachings of Guru Nanak].'

(That Sikhism discourages rites and ceremonies is something the SGPC somehow overlooked and also failed to define 'patit'...)

Thanks

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[jattpunjabi]

BS meri post no. 65 utte v koi comment de yaar

 

[Ramta]

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jattpunjabi,

Your post is written in Punjabi using the Roman script which makes it rather tedioud to read...
By and by I will be quoting you in bit's and...

tu ihi gall kinni vaar unnecessiry repeat kar chuka hain.....ajj ih gall samajh lai......agge tou bina kise valid reason de je ihi gall aki taan sanu del karan layi majboor hona paina.....hun karde aa gal us shabad di asal wich je tu sara shabad padhe taan hi pata lagega ke isda ki matlab hai.......sirf isnu english ch convert/translate kara ke samjhana nasamjhi/agaianta/moorakhta hai.......as u know punjabi ch aakde aa "parsang sahit viakhia" oh lagda mainu karni hi paini aa hun.....main tainu kinne vaar ih gall dass chukia haan par pata nahin kyu tere palle nai paindi.....

That "parsang sahitya viakhya" is a word the spiritual elite use to scare fools.
This is precisely what the Brahmins used to do : Look here...I am a Brahmin
and have read the Scriptures thoroughly from great masters and am well versed
in sanskrit viakaran...blah...blah...and you silly peasant is simply not equipped
with the werewithal and the understanding to grasp the DEEP meaning of the verses...

Nanak's Sikhi was a rebellion against THIS VERY spiritual elitism.
Only he didn't know the Granthi will be acting as just another Brahmin with a turban.

manukh de ander dochita(doublemindness) seham tikia hoya hai....hun is shalok ch likhde han ke is dubhidha nu door karan da iko ik tareeka hai ke "duni" di jagah utte "deen" yani ik parmatma naal preeti.....lammia jattan wale saadh vall dekh ke ik gresath aadmi de dil wich ih vichaar aa jana kudrati hai ke ih lok taan "duni" nu shad ke "deen" de raste paye hoe han....asal wich kabeer ji samjhounde han ke koi b bhekh ya baahrla tyag bande nu nai bacha sakda je bacha sakda hai taan sirf ik prabh naal preeti ate oh v sache dilon..... hey kabeer ! duniya wala hor hor veham udon hi door hunda hai jadon ik parmatma naal pyar paya jaave....jad tak ik prabhu naal preeti paai nai jandi udon tak "duniya" wali dubhidha mit nai sakdi....beshak saadh banke gharon nikal ke janglaan ch dera la lai beshak ghare reh ke prabhu da name lai la.....aithe note karan wali ih gal hai ke kyuke kabeer ji sikhi tou pela janme c par fer v sikhan de SGGS ch unha di baani daraj hai.....is layi ke unha di baani naal sahi raah disda hai.....

Now, IK PARAM-ATMA NAAL PREET..."to be in love with one god" is precisely the point!

Are you, jattpunjabi, in love with one God. You say you are a Sikh so you must be.
And since you, a Sikh(unlike the Hindu who believes in many Gods), is in love with one God
it shouldn't matter to you, a Sikh, whether you maintain long hair or trim it.

If you are not in love with one God, then keeping hair, kakkars are mere rituals...
You yourself say!

And you also say :
asal wich kabeer ji samjhounde han ke koi b bhekh ya baahrla tyag bande nu nai bacha sakda je bacha sakda

Tuhada kesh baddhauna tuhanu bacha sakda ?
Hor kee kesh baddhaye bagair jeh ik paramatma na preet
laga lai jaave taan banda bachuga ke naheen ?

And what does Kabir mean by 'Ik Param-Atma'.
Is it something that could be counted ?
Is it an object of perception ?
Is it a seperate identity ?

The God of Nanak or even that of the Upanishads is beyond count.
Its timeless, colourless, valueless, weightless etc.
It has no separate identity, neither individual nor communal.

In the Indic including Sikh tradition, identity is irrelevent when it comes to realising the truth.

Nanak's 'ik-om-kar' doesn't mean there is one God. What it means is
GOD ALONE IS.

That the Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh is a natural and obvious culmination
of the Sikhi of Nanak is something I didn't find in the Guru Granth.
That Sikhism is a culmination of Bhakti movement that started in South India in the 11th century is something one can't deny.

It was at a very young age(14) I realised I have been lied to and was hurt. Upto that point of time
I was merely a parrot prompted by another parrots. I might not be a genius but am not asleep either.

And will someone tell me where in the guru Granth you find the mention of the doctrine of five K's..

Thanks

By the way...here's the comple shloka.

Kabir, Shri Guru Granthji, Page 1365 CLICK​

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[jattpunjabi]

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That "parsang sahitya viakhya" is a word the spiritual elite use to scare fools.
This is precisely what the Brahmins used to do : Look here...I am a Brahmin
and have read the Scriptures thoroughly from great masters and am well versed
in sanskrit viakaran...blah...blah...and you silly peasant is simply not equipped
with the werewithal and the understanding to grasp the DEEP meaning of the verses...


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hehehehehe.....so u know punjabi but not in roman .... ok when I was in skool I studied Punjabi as one of compulsory subjects..Punjabi subject contains
literature as well....there was a question in every class "parsang sahit viakhia karo".....there were some lines of a poem ndwe had to explain it with reference... the meaning of "parsang sahit viakhia" is to explain that context..so according to great BS , for several years lakhs of students of class 10th are scaring fools. And it is not a case of class 10, from class 7th to 12th do the same thing also students of B.A. with subject punjabi elective, students of Punjabi M.A.....nd school boards nd three universities of Punjab( P.U., G.N.D.U., Pbi U) are allowing to do so..hehehehehe..u r great man....why dont u "educate" acadamic staff of boards and uni's???? in ur views they r just scaring fools....hehehehehehe....
NOW the explanation I gave u not of mine.....its by "teekakar" Professor Sahib Singh.....if u know punjabi then there is no need to tell the meaning of "teekakar"......ok tell me one thing......Baba Sheikh Farid Ji said
" roti meri kath ki, lahvan meri bhukh jinha khadhi chopdi ghane sehange dukh"
does it mean only mean we shud use dry n hard chapati????????????????
"rukhi sukhi khai ke thanda paani peo, farida dekh parai chopri na tarsaeo jeeo"
does it mean only after eating dry chapati drink cold water??????????????
"farida je tu akal lateef kaale likhe na lekh, aapne girevaan heth sir neevan kar dekh"
is that only mean if u r educated dont write black words???????????????

ok Bulleshah (not u, real one) said "mandir todo masjid todo bulleshah ye hai kehta, par pyar bhara dil kabi na todo kyuke is dil main hai dilbar rehta"
does bulleshah mean here to demolish masjids nd mandirs.....is it rite to demolish mandirs or masjids....here need to know wt bulleshah actually wanted to say.....his main concern was not to break heart nd he gave such example......if u think bulleshah said to demolish mandirs nd masjids then one can know how intelligent u r....

in punjabu poetry there r several examples where poets sm examples to say smthing different.....I remember one line of poet dhani ram chatrik " jinha seene taangh milan di din raat pae ne vehnde" the poem was about sm waterfall but poet's message was different.....

this is from SGGS wt does it mean
ਵੈਦੁ ਬੁਲਾਇਆ ਵੈਦਗੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਢੰਢੋਲੇ ਬਾਂਹ ॥ ਭੋਲਾ ਵੈਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਈ ਕਰਕ ਕਲੇਜੇ ਮਾਹਿ


what these contexts mean here????

What u do is, just pick the lines from SGGS nd translate nd use according to ur own will....its wrong anyway....the best way to know teachings of SGGS is to concentrate on background nd theme of shalok with true explanation.....NOW if u read above shalok carefully then u can know what Kabir Ji actually said..try to understand the actual message of Kabeer ji..I already told that in this shabad from shalok 13 to 40 Kabirji talking about deen nd duni......i am going to explain from shalok 13 to 25 of this shabad coz shalok 25 is related shalok.....if u want I will post explanation of rest of shaloks upto 40 as well ......nd if u see carefully in entite shabad upto shalok 40 the message is same about deen nd duni

ਕਬੀਰ ਦੀਨੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ਦੁਨੀ ਸਿਉ ਦੁਨੀ ਨ ਚਾਲੀ ਸਾਥਿ ॥ ਪਾਇ ਕੁਹਾੜਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਗਾਫਲਿ ਅਪੁਨੈ ਹਾਥਿ ॥੧੩॥
kabeer deen gavaa-i-aa dunee si-o dunee na chaalee saath paa-ay kuhaarhaa maari-aa gaafal apunai haath. ||13||


meaning hey Kabir manukh ne duniya di khatir deen gawa lia hai
ਕਬੀਰ ਜਹ ਜਹ ਹਉ ਫਿਰਿਓ ਕਉਤਕ ਠਾਓ ਠਾਇ ॥ ਇਕ ਰਾਮ ਸਨੇਹੀ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਊਜਰੁ ਮੇਰੈ ਭਾਂਇ ॥੧੪॥
kabeer jah jah ha-o firi-o ka-utak thaa-o thaa-ay.ik raam sanayhee baahraa oojar mayrai bhaa<SUP>N-ay. ||14||


Kabeer main jithe v gia haan duniya de rang tamashe hi vekhe han..par mere layi oh ujaad hai jithe parmatma nu pyar karan wala koi nahin..har jagah utte duniya hi duniya hai ate deen da kite name nai

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਝੁੰਗੀਆ ਭਲੀ ਭਠਿ ਕੁਸਤੀ ਗਾਉ ॥ ਆਗਿ ਲਗਉ ਤਿਹ ਧਉਲਹਰ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹੀ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ॥੧੫॥
kabeer santan kee jhungee-aa bhalee bhath kustee gaa-o.aag laga-o tih Dha-ulhar jih naahee har ko naa-o. ||15||

Kabeer mainu sant di shori jehi kutia hi ashi lagdi hai kyuke othe deen hai, manukh de ghar ch duniya di agg bal rahi hai ate othe koi deen da name nai lainda

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੰਤ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਆ ਰੋਈਐ ਜੋ ਅਪੁਨੇ ਗ੍ਰਿਹਿ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਰੋਵਹੁ ਸਾਕਤ ਬਾਪੁਰੇ ਜੁ ਹਾਟੈ ਹਾਟ ਬਿਕਾਇ ॥੧੬॥
kabeer sant moo-ay ki-aa ro-ee-ai jo apunay garihi jaa-ay,rovhu saakat baapuray jo haatai haat bikaa-ay. ||16||
Kabeer sant mare tou ki rona oh taan parmatma de ghar ja apda hai kyu ke oh taan pela hi deen da vapari hai ate parmatma de ghar janda hai, rona hai taan us manukh utte ro jo duniya da vapari hai ate hun kai joona ch bhatkega.

ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਐਸਾ ਹੈ ਜੈਸੀ ਲਸਨ ਕੀ ਖਾਨਿ ॥ ਕੋਨੇ ਬੈਠੇ ਖਾਈਐ ਪਰਗਟ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਦਾਨਿ ॥੧੭॥
kabeer saakat aisaa hai jaisee lasan kee khaan.konay baithay khaa-ee-ai pargat ho-ay nidaan. ||17||
kabeer jo manukh parmatma nalo tuta hai kyuke oh duniya di khatir deen nu gawa rea hai,usnu ih samjho ke oh ik lasan di kothdi hai kyuke je lasan nu kite luknvi jagah utte baith ke v kha layiea taan us di smell aa jandi hai

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਡੋਲਨੀ ਪਵਨੁ ਝਕੋਲਨਹਾਰੁ ॥ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਮਾਖਨੁ ਖਾਇਆ ਛਾਛਿ ਪੀਐ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੧੮॥
kabeer maa-i-aa dolnee pavan jhakolanhaar.santahu maakhan khaa-i-aa chhaachh pee-ai sansaar. ||18||
Kabeer is duniya nu dudh di bhari ik chaati samjho ate har jeev da swaas us madhaani nu ridkan layi mith lavo,jinha nu ih dudh ridkan di jaach aa ate unha ne naam simran de naal is nu ridkia, unha ne duniya nu vanjia ate deen v guachan na ditta, unha santa ne makhan v khadha matlab deen v khattia, par jede sirf duniya ch hi leen han oh sirf duniya de vapari han ate sirf lassi pee rahe han ate makhan nai kha rahe.

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਡੋਲਨੀ ਪਵਨੁ ਵਹੈ ਹਿਵ ਧਾਰ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਬਿਲੋਇਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਖਾਇਆ ਅਵਰ ਬਿਲੋਵਨਹਾਰ ॥੧੯॥
kabeer maa-i-aa dolnee pavan vahai hiv Dhaar.jin bilo-i-aa tin khaa-i-aa avar bilovanhaar. ||19||
Kabeer ih duniya jiven dudh di chaati hai, jo v parmatma de naam simran de naal isnu ridak rae han oh makhan v kha rae han ate dooje bina makhan tou hi ridak rae han, jo manukh aapne har swaas naal parmatma nu yaad rakhde han oh aavda jeevan safal bana lainde han ate jo duniya di preference ch deen bhul jaande han oh aapna ih jeevan ajaain hi gawa lainde han.

ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਇਆ ਚੋਰਟੀ ਮੁਸਿ ਮੁਸਿ ਲਾਵੈ ਹਾਟਿ ॥ ਏਕੁ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਨਾ ਮੁਸੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਬਾਰਹ ਬਾਟ ॥੨੦॥
kabeer maa-i-aa chortee mus mus laavai haat ayk kabeeraa naa musai jin keenee baarah baat. ||20||
kabeer ih duniya momo-thagni hai, jo lok deen visaar ke duniya ch bhatak rae han oh aavdi hatti hor saja rae han doojian nu thag thag ke, sirf ohi kamyab hai jisne maya dian 12 vandiaa paian han

ਕਬੀਰ ਸੂਖੁ ਨ ਏਂਹ ਜੁਗਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਜੁ ਬਹੁਤੈ ਮੀਤ ॥ ਜੋ ਚਿਤੁ ਰਾਖਹਿ ਏਕ ਸਿਉ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਨੀਤ ॥੨੧॥
kabeer sookh na ayNh jug karahi jo bahutai meet.jo chit raakhahi ayk si-o tay sukh paavahi neet. ||21 ||
Kabeer parmatma nu bhul ke (deen visaar ke) duniya de jo mitter bana rea us naal tainu koia sukh nai milan lagga,ohi manukh sukh maande han jo duniya ch viserde hoye v deen da saath nai shadde yani ik parmatma nu nai bhulde

ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਰਨੇ ਤੇ ਜਗੁ ਡਰੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਆਨੰਦੁ ॥ ਮਰਨੇ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ॥੨੨॥
kabeer jis marnay tay jag darai mayray man aanand. marnay hee tay paa-ee-ai pooran parmaanand. ||22||
deen di jagah utte duniya nu visaar ke manukh kai duniaavi sambandh banounda hai ate inha duniaavi sambandha karke oh mout tou darda hai,hey kabeer jis mout tou sara jagg darda hai mainu us tou koi darr nai kyu ke main kise duniavi vastu naal prem na karke deen naal prem karda haan ate is duniya de moh tou poori taran maran naal hi parmatma milda hai jo ke anand savroop hai.

ਰਾਮ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਗਾਂਠਿ ਨ ਖੋਲ੍ਹ੍ਹ ॥ ਨਹੀ ਪਟਣੁ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਰਖੂ ਨਹੀ ਗਾਹਕੁ ਨਹੀ ਮੋਲੁ ॥੨੩॥
raam padaarath paa-ay kai kabeeraa gaaNth na kholHnahee patan nahee paarkhoo nahee gaahak nahee mol. ||23||
hey kabeer jidhar vekh duniya di hi bhaj daud hai ate je tainu parmatma de name di sohni vastu mil gayi hai taan isnu harek de agge na khol, ih sansaar deen nu visaar ke duniya ch aina masat hai ke naam de padarath di na ta koi mandi hai na hi koi isdi kadar karan wala hai ate na koi ih vastu khareedni chounda hai ate na hi koi is di keemat den nu tyar hai

ਕਬੀਰ ਤਾ ਸਿਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਜਾ ਕੋ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਰਾਮੁ ॥ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਰਾਜੇ ਭੂਪਤੀ ਆਵਹਿ ਕਉਨੇ ਕਾਮ ॥੨੪॥
kabeer taa si-o pareet kar jaa ko thaakur raam.pandit raajay bhooptee aavahi ka-unay kaam. ||24||
hey kabeer us naal saanjh bana jis da aasra parna parmatma hai, parmatma naal preeti hi nibh sakdi hai, jo deen nu visaar ke duniya ch lagge hoye han oh beshak raje hon, zameen de malik hon kise kamm nai aa sakde

ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
kabeer pareet ik si-o kee-ay aan dubiDhaa jaa-ay.bhaavai laaNbay kays kar bhaavai gharar mudaa-ay. ||25||
hey kabeer ik parmatma naal sachi preeti hi is dubidha nu door kar sakdi hai,..dubidha ih hai ke lammia jataan vale saduaan nu vekh ke aam lokan de dil ch ih khyal aa sakda hai ke ih lok taan duniya nu shad ke deen de raste paye han kyu ke inha sahuaan ne ghar greshath wala jeevan shad ditta hai ate lammia jataan (vaal) rakh ke ate ghar nu tyag ke deen de raste paye han....beshak greshath jeevan wich reh ke parmatma da name lai beshak tu duniya shad de yaani jatadhari saadh ban ke jangla ch chala ja ...par ik parmatma naal sachi preet hi kamm aa sakdi hai.

NOTE: je upper sare shabad nu dhyan naal vekia jaave taan ih pata lagda hai ke Kabeer Ji deen ate duniya di gal karde aa rahe han. is shalok wich v kabeer ji ne sirf ik example hi ditti hai ke ik parmatma naal preeti paai jaave. jis taran ik raje di zameen, vapari da dhan, bhoopti di saari sampati bina naam simran tou kise kamm nai aoundi use taran sirf vaal rakhn naal hi ik parmatma naal preeti nai lagdi....kyuke kabeer ji Guru Gobind Singh ji de time tou pela hoye han is layi unha ne jara dhaarian sadhuaan di example ditti hai kyu ke unha veliaan ch kai lok aavda ghat baar shad ke ate lammian jataan rakh ke saadh ban jande c.....aithe ih gal v dhyan ch rakhan di lod hai ke Kabeer ji deen ate duniya di gal samjha rae c....oh ih samjha rae hai ke duniya ch reh ke hi deen nu apnaia ja sakda hai.....ate sade dasam guru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji ne kesh rakhne sikhan layi lazmi kite c kyu ke kesh ate dastaar sikh di ik identity banaye gaye....is layi Kabeer jian do lines di example BS ne ditti hai oh fazool hai....Guru Gobind Singh Ji ne Khia c ke mere sikh kai lakhan wichon pashane jaange.....hun je aavde matlab layi asi is da is dhang naal matlab kadhde haan taan asi moorakh tou vadh kush v nai.



</SUP>

 

[jattpunjabi]

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jattpunjabi,

Your post is written in Punjabi using the Roman script which makes it rather tedioud to read...
By and by I will be quoting you in bit's and...









Now, IK PARAM-ATMA NAAL PREET..."to be in love with one god" is precisely the point!

Are you, jattpunjabi, in love with one God. You say you are a Sikh so you must be.
And since you, a Sikh(unlike the Hindu who believes in many Gods), is in love with one God
it shouldn't matter to you, a Sikh, whether you maintain long hair or trim it.

If you are not in love with one God, then keeping hair, kakkars are mere rituals...
You yourself say!

And you also say :
asal wich kabeer ji samjhounde han ke koi b bhekh ya baahrla tyag bande nu nai bacha sakda je bacha sakda

Tuhada kesh baddhauna tuhanu bacha sakda ?
Hor kee kesh baddhaye bagair jeh ik paramatma na preet
laga lai jaave taan banda bachuga ke naheen ?

And what does Kabir mean by 'Ik Param-Atma'.
Is it something that could be counted ?
Is it an object of perception ?
Is it a seperate identity ?

The God of Nanak or even that of the Upanishads is beyond count.
Its timeless, colourless, valueless, weightless etc.
It has no separate identity, neither individual nor communal.

In the Indic including Sikh tradition, identity is irrelevent when it comes to realising the truth.

Nanak's 'ik-om-kar' doesn't mean there is one God. What it means is
GOD ALONE IS.

That the Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh is a natural and obvious culmination
of the Sikhi of Nanak is something I didn't find in the Guru Granth.
That Sikhism is a culmination of Bhakti movement that started in South India in the 11th century is something one can't deny.

It was at a very young age(14) I realised I have been lied to and was hurt. Upto that point of time
I was merely a parrot prompted by another parrots. I might not be a genius but am not asleep either.

And will someone tell me where in the guru Granth you find the mention of the doctrine of five K's..

Thanks

By the way...here's the comple shloka.

Kabir, Shri Guru Granthji, Page 1365 CLICK​

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we keep hairs to preserve identity.......it doesnt mean a man with tied hairs nd turban is sin free..
sada kesh badhna sanu bacha sakda hai if we follow other principles of sikhi as well....Wt if there is nothing about 5 k's in SGGS....does it mean Guru Ji never made hairs/dastaar mandatory for sikhs???????

 

[Ramta]

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jattpunjabi,

Excuse me you are a mere simpleton...

I will retain this label to YOUR type - for a person who does not
question, answer, and opinonate IS a simpleton, and rightfully deserves the
label!

Advice : read my post 71 carefully...

I will quote for you :
Now, IK PARAM-ATMA NAAL PREET..."to be in love with one god" is precisely the point!

Are you, jattpunjabi, in love with one God. You say you are a Sikh so you must be.
And since you, a Sikh(unlike the Hindu who believes in many Gods), is in love with one God
it shouldn't matter to you, a Sikh, whether you maintain long hair or trim it.

If you are not in love with one God, then keeping hair, kakkars are mere rituals...
You yourself say!

And you also say :
asal wich kabeer ji samjhounde han ke koi b bhekh ya baahrla tyag bande nu nai bacha sakda je bacha sakda

Tuhada kesh baddhauna tuhanu bacha sakda ?
Hor kee kesh baddhaye bagair jeh ik paramatma na preet
laga lai jaave taan banda bachuga ke naheen ?

And what does Kabir mean by 'Ik Param-Atma'.
Is it something that could be counted ?
Is it an object of perception ?
Is it a seperate identity ?

Now coming to your long post...well I agree with what most of Gurbani says.
What I don't agree with is Gurbani makes it mandatory to follow the five K's...
COVINCE ME IT DOES.

hun je aavde matlab layi asi is da is dhang naal matlab
kadhde haan taan asi moorakh tou vadh kush v nai.

Well said.
and a bold statement for someone like yourself. I do not make super-fiscial
insults to Sikhi, I make existing questions in this world and relate them to
sikhism (what have you done?)! Its blind followers such as yourself
who are eating this great faith from the inside out. Come on man...
pull it together become what the Guru's wanted you to become: a learner!

Thanks

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[jattpunjabi]

satbachan 22......main simpleton hi theek aa.......tere verga gyani dhiaqni mainu hon di lod nai aa..... dhyan naal meri post padh je sare shabad de meaning galat hai taan dass.....tu pata ki karda jithe kite sikhi related thread vekhda authe aavdi antisikhi dukaan khol ke baith janda......nd jo main akia ke kai aavde matlab layi meaning kadh lainde oh kalle tere naal related nai aa......us ch mere verge vaalan kattian vale v kai shaamil aa jo ill-witted meaning samajh ke(jo tu kadhia hai) vaal katwa ke khush hunde aa.....nd sada faith kise kaaran hi tikia hai jo tere vergian karke dolan nai lagga.

 

[Princess6863]

eh thread banaun da koi faida nahi ​

lemme ask smthin
jehde waal kata lende aa
oh kehda sikh ni hunde
​

so waz da use of askin dis thing ????​

i know dis i'm pointing out a very old post..but jus wondering..r we ANYTHING or ANYONE to decide who is sikh or who is not..u answered ur question by urself..u meant "yes" je waal kata laye taan v sikh hai..right??
i dun agree wid ya..

for a Sikh, acceptance of nature's beautiful body is an important component of the Sikh value system.....acceptance of one's God-given physique without "improving" it by razors and scissors is a first step in accepting other laws.....acceptance of the Creator's given body is a natural outcome of a lifestyle that is in conformity with the Guru's teaching..if u can't accept the way GOd has made u then wat else wud u do

this was my post sumwhere else..

<!-- / message -->

whoever cuts his or her hair is not considered sikh.. but keeping hair for show off does not count.. keep them from heart that's wat counts...when u keep hair dont have a wish for reward in the end...isdaa kee result honaa ohdee koi ishaa naa rakho ... aukhaa karnaa.. keyonke kesh rakh k rabb te koi ehsaan nahin kar rahey... who's considered sikh or who's not... ?? who am i to guess??

these r the words of one of my really gud friend



now i have a question...why do ppl get a hair cut..lemme make it simpler...y do sikhs get a hair cut..and still dey wanna be called "sikhs"...wat's the point..(sumtimes dere is a dire need..m not talking abt that)

 

[SehaJ]

i know dis i'm pointing out a very old post..but jus wondering..r we ANYTHING or ANYONE to decide who is sikh or who is not..u answered ur question by urself..u meant "yes" je waal kata laye taan v sikh hai..right??
i dun agree wid ya..

this was my post sumwhere else..

<!-- / message -->

these r the words of one of my really gud friend



now i have a question...why do ppl get a hair cut..lemme make it simpler...y do sikhs get a hair cut..wat's the point..(sumtimes dere is a dire need..m not talking abt that)

Mera putt bahut siyana ho geya.. come on give me a hug

 

[Princess6863]

aww.. thnx sehaju...>hug

 

[SehaJ]

Its ok putt.....

 

[luv_beyond_limitz]

bahut wadia jawab ditta janab, good job, keep posting ji