is sikh really a hindu?

[jattpunjabi]

guru ji ne akia c ke guru maneo granth.......theek aa.......unha ih v akia c ke granthi nu manno.....una ne akia c ke panj piare jo v akan ge usnu manna paega.....par hun je sgpc ch corrut bande aa jange ta koi ki kar sakda?????? koi v dharam ih nai akda ke dooje dharam nu aavda sect samjho........par je koi ajj kal ih parchaar kari jau taan koi ki kar sakda???????? dharam koi v hove God taan ik hai 22......kush aakh la.....namdev ji ne taan ih v akia c ke hindu (dharam) annah hai "hindu is sightless nd muslim have one"......nd tainu kisne aakh ditta ke sikhi bhagat kabir ji vele shuru hoi c.....good on ya........22 ya taan tere kush samajh nai aounda ya tu jaan bujh ke machla banda aa.....tainu unp utte kinne vaar ih gal dass chukke haan ke SGGS ch sikh guruan tou bina hor v bhagtaan di baani shaamil kiti gayi aa ate unha di baani shamil karan da ihi maksad c ke us baani tou koi gian mil sake.....naale gita ate vedas da sade layi koi mean nai aa.......asi sare dharma dian dharmik ktaban da aadir karde haan par sorry sade guruan ne inha nu manan tou manah kita hai.

 

[karan4web]

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Tirath kiye phal ek Sant mile phal chaar
Guru mile phal anek hai kahat Kabir vichaar.
- - - - - Kabir​

Guru and God both appear before me. To whom should I prostrate?
I bow before Guru who introduced God to me.
- - - - - Kabir​

It's my great fortune that I found Satguru, all my doubts are removed.
I bow before Guru. Guru's glory is greater than God's.
- - - - - Brahmanand​

Guru is Shiva sans his three eyes,
Vishnu sans his four arms
Brahma sans his four heads.
He is parama Shiva himself in human form
- - - - - Brahmananda Purana​

Guru and God both appear before me. To whom should I prostrate?
I bow before Guru who introduced God to me.
- - - - - Kabir​

Guru, God and Self are one.
- - - - - Ramana Maharshi​

What is the nature of Guru's grace? It is beyond thought and word. Then how can it be said that the devotee realises his true Being by virtue of the Guru's grace? It is like the elephant which wakes up on seeing a lion in its dream. Even as the elephant wakes up at the mere sight of the lion, so too is it certain that the disciple wakes up from the sleep of ignorance to the knowledge of Real. It is true and certain.
- - - - - Ramana Maharshi​

The grace of the Guru is like an ocean. If one comes with a cup he will only get a cupful. It is no use complaining of the niggardliness of the ocean. The bigger the vessel the more one will be able to carry. It is entirely up to him
- - - - - Ramana Maharshi ​

Rain-water falling upon the roof of a house flows down to the ground through spouts shaped grotesquely like the tiger's head. One gets the impression that the water flows from the tiger's mouth, but in reality it descends from the sky. In the same way the holy teachings that comes from the mouth of godly men (Gurus) seem to be uttered by those men themselves, while in reality they proceed from God.
- - - - - Ramakrishna

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yaar menu samaj ta 2 3 hi aaye ne but jo v aa vadiya likhya....tu eh sab copy kitho maarda huna...
sabto vadiya oh c

Guru and God both appear before me. To whom should I prostrate?
I bow before Guru who introduced God to me.​

menu ta aah sabto vadiya lagya....​

 

[karan4web]

There is no compulsion on you to believe in what I will say.
You have no right to run a fraud on your own children either.

Thanks

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gall sai aa bande di...agla bhave jo marji kahe tusi ki laina dena...oh kehra dhakke naal aapni kahi gall manwa reha...agle nu jo theek lagya ohne kehta...

 

[Ramta]

If you don't want to be a Hindu nobody can force you to be one. There are Hindu's
who don't want to be Hindu after all. The communists for one. But I too am a Sikh
and I never and nor do anyone in my family allow some semi literate Granthi to
interpret Sikh scripture for us. We do that on our own. "Guru Manyo Granth" is
what the Dasam-Pitah said and that's precisely what he meant. He never did mean
"Guru Manyo SGPC/Granthi". And after having gone through the scripture
any one can tell that Nanak was not bringing any new covenant from some
God(He himself never claimed to) but only discovering what was already there.
Nanak did not invent Sikhi. He discovered it. Come to think of it Sikhi was actually
discovered by Kabir, Namdev, Tirlochan etc. all of whom existed when Nanak was
not even born. And also all the things these people talked about existed before them.

"Ekam Sat, Viprah Bahudha Vadanti".
(There is only one truth, only men describe it in different ways).
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]- - - The Rig Veda - - - [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"The Divine Thread started everything. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The knower of the Thread is a yogi, his Knowledge is beyond the scope of the Vedas. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Pearls stringed together form an ornament. The Divine Thread holds together the Universe. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Yogi wears this Thread when he becomes aware of his Divinity. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Established in highest state of Yoga, the yogi discards the external thread. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The wearer of the Thread of Knowledge is never unclean. The Thread exists within him. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Knowledge is the greatest purifier."[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]- - - Brahma Upanishad - - - [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"The misguided ones who delight in the melodious chanting of the [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Veda - without understanding the real purpose of the Vedas - think, [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]O Arjuna, as if there is nothing else in the Vedas except the rituals [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]for the sole purpose of obtaining heavenly enjoyment." [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]- - - 2.42 - The Geeta - - - [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"To a Self-realized person the Vedas are as useful as a small reservoir of [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]water when the water of a huge lake becomes available." [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]- - - 2.46 - The Geeta - - - [/FONT]


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"There is no heaven, no final liberation, nor any soul in another world,
Nor do the actions of the four castes, etc., produce any real effect.
The Agnihotra, the three Vedas, the ascetic's three staves, and smearing one's self with ashes,
Were made by Nature as the livelihood or those destitute of knowledge and manliness."
- - - Savradarshana Samgraha - - -[/FONT]


[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]There is nothing new in Sikhism.
The principles Nanak followed are very much and decidedly Hindu.

You can read further under the thread "Nice read..." ( CLICK )

Thanks[/FONT]

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mehimaa n jaanehi baedh || brehamae nehee jaanehi bhaedh ||
The Vedas know not God's greatness. Brahmas can realize not His secrets.
avathaar n jaanehi anth || paramaesar paarabreham baeanth ||1||
The incarnations know not His limit. Infinite is God, the Transcendent Lord.
apanee gath aap jaanai || sun sun avar vakhaanai ||1|| rehaao ||
His state, He Himself knows. Others speak of Him from mere hearsay.
sankaraa nehee jaanehi bhaev || khojath haarae dhaev ||
Shiva knows not the Lord's way. The gods have grown weary searching for Him.
dhaeveeaa nehee jaanai maram || sabh oopar alakh paarabreham ||2||
The goddesses know not His mystery. Over all is the Unseen Supreme Lord."
- - Guru Arjan Dev, Ramkali, pg. 894



"Jag Pekhan Tum Dekhan Hare| Bidhi Hari Sambhu Nachavani Hare||
This world is spectacle and you are its spectator. You make even
Brahma, Vishnu and Shambhu dance to your tune.
Teu Na Janahi Maram Tumhara| Aur tumahi ko Janani hara||
Even these latter know not your secret; who else can know you?
- - Tulsidas - Ramcharit Manas

Sarad koti Amit Chaturi|Bidhi sata koti shristi Nipunai||
He is as sharp as countless millions of Sarswatis,
and posses the creative skills of millions of Brhamas.
Bishnu koti sam palan karta|Rudra Koti sata sam sahmarta||
He is as good preserver as millions of Vishnus and
as thorough destroyer as millions of Rudras.
Bhar dharan sata koti Ahisa|Nirvadhi Nirupam Prabhu Jagdisha||
In short, Rama, sovereign of universe, is infinite and incomparable.
- - Tulsidas - Ramcharit Manas


You see, Guru Arjan Dev's paarabreham of "sabh oopar alakh paarabreham"
in Ramkali pg.894 is the same "Nirvadhi Nirupam Prabhu Jagdisha"
of Tulsidasa.


There is lot more :

"Naame Ke Swami, Siya Bahoree, Lank Vibhikhan Thapyori ...."
Forgive me if I made a spelling mistake there.
It is a Shabd by Sant Namdevji, included in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji.
With my limited knowledge, I translate it thus ....

"The one who got Sitaji back (from Lanka) and made
Vibhishan the King of Lanka, is the Lord of Namdevji."

I have given one shabad where Namdevji says that Lord Ram of Ayodhya
is his Lord. This Shabd is included in the Sri Guru Granth Sahibji, so I
believe that according to Gurmat Lord Ram (Sagun Roop) is same as
Waheguru (Nirgun Roop). The logic is as follows....

1) There is only One Supreme God.
2) Lord Ram (of Ayodhya) is the Lord of Sant Namdevji.
3) Both these views are given in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji.
4) Guru Arjan Devji too describes the Chaturbhuj (Sagun) Roop of the Supreme Lord
(included in Shri Guru Granth Sahibji).
NAMDEVJI INCIDENTALLY HAPPENED TO BE LONG BEFORE NANAK WAS BORN AND
THE FIRST OF THE CONTRIBUTERS TO THIS NEW UNDERSTANDING CALLED SIKHI.

Later in this beutiful Shabd by Sant Kabirdasji we have --
"O Param Purukh Devadhidev, Bagat Het Narsimh Bhev ...."

Here it is indicated that, the same Param Purukh, who has been worshipped
by Prahlad, took the form of Narsimha. Bhagwan Narsimha is never indicated
to be a subordinate of the Supreme Lord (Param Purukh/Purush).


The God alluded to in Gurbani is the same God of the Hindus.
The Guru's said in Punjabi what the Indian texts say in Sanskrit, Pali etc.
Sikhism is restatement of Hinduism.
Buddha did the same while he called it "zero (Shunya)".

So Sikhism is only as much same or diffrent from hinduism as BUdhism is.
For that matter any indic religion not Abrahamic ones(they are pure Asuric).

Leaving aside ritual part, Gurus didn't say anything different from
what is already in Upnishads.

I am surprised you don't know such a simple thing when it comes to
understanding the message of Gurus. Guru is not a simple human being
you should know that. His conciousness is not the constricted conciousness
of a normal human. The "Hum" of the Guru in "Na hum Hindu, Na Hum Musalman"
is not the "Hum" of a normal human being.

The Self (Atman, the timeless indweller, the object-subject of his “mystical experience”)
is beyond worldly divisions like those between different religions and sects.
The Self is neither black nor white, neither big nor small, neither Hindu nor Muslim,
neither this nor that; neti neti, in the Upanishadic phrase.

Communal identity in Sikh or for that matter any Indic tradition is a
superficial reality, relatively acceptable and inevitable in the temporal
world, but unreal from the angle of the timeless and colourless Self.

This is what Nanak preached of. One supreme primordial reality which is the
substratum of everything. The Self, the objectless self-contained consciousness.
This insight is a typically Hindu insight. And decidedly so.

Also Read This

Thanks

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[jattpunjabi]

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">wow BS ih sara RSS propeganda hai....tu SGGS page no. 894 di gal kiti hai ke ih shabad ate tulsidas da shabad iko han.....thoda dhiaan naal vekh aavdiaan akhan khol ke.....same page utte same shabad da kush part likhda haan main


rwmklI mhlw 5 ] (894-4)
raamkalee mehlaa 5.
Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl:
mihmw n jwnih byd ] (894-4, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
mahimaa na jaaneh bayd.
The Vedas do not know His greatness.
bRhmy nhI jwnih Byd ] (894-4, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
barahmay nahee jaaneh bhayd.
Brahma does not know His mystery.
Avqwr n jwnih AMqu ] (894-4, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
avtaar na jaaneh ant.
Incarnated beings do not know His limit.
prmysru pwrbRhm byAMqu ]1] (894-5, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
parmaysar paarbarahm bay-ant. ||1||
The Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God, is infinite. ||1||
ApnI giq Awip jwnY ] (894-5, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
apnee gat aap jaanai.
Only He Himself knows His own state.
suix suix Avr vKwnY ]1] rhwau ] (894-5, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
sun sun avar vakhaanai. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Others speak of Him only by hearsay. ||1||Pause||
sMkrw nhI jwnih Byv ] (894-6, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
sankraa nahee jaaneh bhayv.
Shiva does not know His mystery.
Kojq hwry dyv ] (894-6, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
khojat haaray dayv.
The gods gave grown weary of searching for Him.
dyvIAw nhI jwnY mrm ] (894-6, rwmklI, mÚ 5)
dayvee-aa nahee jaanai maram.
The goddesses do not know His mystery.


</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

vekh lia ke nai?????? is shabad da meaning hai ke......
(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕੇਡਾ ਵੱਡਾ ਹੈ-ਇਹ ਗੱਲ (ਚਾਰੇ) ਵੇਦ (ਭੀ) ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੇ। ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭੀ (ਉਸ ਦੇ) ਦਿਲ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੇ। ਸਾਰੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭੀ ਉਸ (ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ) ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੇ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪਰਮੇਸਰ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਹੈ।੧।
(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਜੀ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਦਿਲ ਦੀ ਗੱਲ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੇ, ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਉਸ ਦੀ ਖੋਜ ਕਰਦੇ ਕਰਦੇ ਥੱਕ ਗਏ। ਦੇਵੀਆਂ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਭੀ ਕੋਈ ਉਸ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ ਭੇਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਣਦੀ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਸਭਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਵੱਡਾ ਹੈ, ਉਸ ਦੇ ਸਹੀ ਸਰੂਪ ਦਾ ਬਿਆਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਕੀਤਾ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ।੨।
(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਆਪਣੀ ਮੌਜ ਵਿਚ (ਜਗਤ ਦੇ ਸਾਰੇ) ਕੌਤਕ ਕਰ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਆਪ ਹੀ (ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਚਰਨਾਂ ਤੋਂ) ਵਿਛੋੜਦਾ ਹੈ, ਆਪ ਹੀ ਮਿਲਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਉਸ ਨੇ ਭਟਕਣਾ ਵਿਚ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, ਤੇ ਅਨੇਕਾਂ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਜੋੜਿਆ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ। (ਇਹ ਜਗਤ ਉਸ ਦਾ) ਆਪਣਾ ਹੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੋਇਆ ਹੈ, (ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਉਹ) ਆਪ ਹੀ ਸੂਝ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ਦਾ ਹੈ।੩।
(ਹੇ ਭਾਈ!) ਸੰਤ-ਜਨਾਂ ਬਾਰੇ ਇਹ ਸੱਚੀ ਗੱਲ ਸੁਣ। ਸੰਤ ਜਨ ਉਹ ਕੁਝ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਜੋ ਉਹ ਆਪਣੀਆਂ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਵੇਖਦੇ ਹਨ। (ਸੰਤ ਜਨ ਆਖਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ) ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਉਤੇ ਨਾਹ ਕਿਸੇ ਪੁੰਨ ਨੇ ਨਾਹ ਕਿਸੇ ਪਾਪ ਨੇ (ਕਦੇ ਆਪਣਾ) ਪ੍ਰਭਾਵ ਪਾਇਆ ਹੈ। ਹੇ ਭਾਈ! ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ (ਆਪਣੇ ਵਰਗਾ) ਆਪ ਹੀ ਆਪ ਹੈ।੪।੨੫।੩੬।

mere khyal ch ih gall tulsidas naal mai mildi ke ved/shiv/brahma god nai han........nd har ik dharam diaan kush na kush gallan mildiaan hundian han......je kise diaan kush common gallan han taan isda ih matlab nai ke sade guruan ne upnishedan wala sara kush likia hai je ajeha hunda taan oh upnisheds nu imprtance zaroor dinde par unha kite v nai ajeha kita.....kyu 22?

In short, Rama, sovereign of universe, is infinite and incomparable.
- - Tulsidas - Ramcharit Manas


You see, Guru Arjan Dev's paarabreham of "sabh oopar alakh paarabreham"
in Ramkali pg.894 is the same "Nirvadhi Nirupam Prabhu Jagdisha"
of Tulsidasa.


Thanks

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[jattpunjabi]

BS ya taan tu RSS da badly brainwashed aa ya fer tu khud RSS da member hain....jo kush tu akda same RSS wale akde aa
btw jo v tu ate tere sathi akde aa jama galat hai....gal ih hai ke iho jehe sikhi di mahanta nu vekh ke sad mach jande aa....
jadon vekde aa ke sirf india di 2% population ne 60% tou v vadh yogdaan paya azadi sangharash wich.......main taan akda
unha sariaan nu dub ke mar jana chaida sharam naal ke sirf ainu ghat population ne aina vadda yogdaan paya.....sadi sifat taan
ki karni aaaina ne ik navi chaal sochi oh ih ke kyu na puthe sidhe dhanga naal sikhan nu "gr8 hindu samaj" ch shamil kar lia jave....na udon
aa gr8 samaj kithe c jadonsirf 2% minority ne majorty ch kamm kita? udon aa gr8 samaj kithe c jadon aise gr8 samaj diaan dheean/bhena/maavan
di izzat bachai.......great bulleshah ne
akia hai (not this BS) "na kahun ab ki na kahun tab ki agar na hote gobind singh tou sunnat hoti sabh ki" ......hun ih ih sabit kara
utte lage aa kejede sikh aa asal ch oh hindu aa ate unha de devi devte v same Aa....par yaar kaavan aake dhagge taan bolno rae
.......hind god Ram, Krishan, Shiv han par sikhi ch ina di koi ahemiat nai aa....sikhi taan baad di gal aa hindu leader hi Ram nu God n
ai mande aaSGGS ch Ram/Raheem/Shiv/Allah/Khuda/Brahma vagaira da name kinne vaar aya hai.....par ih name kise devi devta
nu sambodhit n ai karde..ih sabh inha sabh da matlab ik hi aa ate oh hai One God Almighty....ki tu ihi Ram vekh ke sikhan ate
hinduaan de devte hon ik hon di gal kardataan asi jinne hindu haan taan aune hi muslim haan, ih sirf kush shararti janta de
puthe damak di upaj hai.....par sachai taan sachai rehni hai.....usnu koi jhooth bol ke badal nai sakda.....well je namdev ji hindu c
taan unha ne hindu nu anah kyu akia? hindu is blind and muslim have only one-SGGS....tera point nos.
(1)..haan ih sahi aa ke supreme lord ik hai......par upnisheds vaangu ih nai ke ram/shiva/krishan kise ne akas/dharti/pataal
da malak hai.....vaise sare dharam hi ihi mande han rab ik hai....hindu/sikh/muslim/christian....God Is One
(2)..nah ayodhya ram ate sikhi ch ram wale shabad da bot anter hai....
(3)..pela view SGGS ch hai par dooja nai....aithe tu galat matlab kadh rea hain.....SGGS ch Ram/Raheem/Allah/Khuda/Shiva/Krishna da
matlab hai -Only One God Almighty aithe Ram shabad da matlab ih hai na ke ayodhya Rama......haan SGGS ch ayodhya rama da v name
aounda hai par thode vakhre tareeke naal.....ਰਾਮੁ ਗਇਓ ਰਾਵਨੁ ਗਇਓ ਜਾ ਕਉ ਬਹੁ ਪਰਵਾਰੁ ॥
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਥਿਰੁ ਕਛੁ ਨਹੀ ਸੁਪਨੇ ਜਿਉ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥50॥ Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives. Says Nanak, nothing lasts forever; the world is like a
dream. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1429)
This shows that Guru Ji considered Rama and Rawana as regular humans. Guru Ji saw them both as one. So this means that Hindu lord
Rama is not God
nd also guru Nanak Dev ji said ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰੁ ਹੋਰਿ ਕੇਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਰਵਾਲ ॥
O Nanak, the Lord is fearless and formless; myriads of others, like Rama, are mere dust before Him. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 464)
nd yeah....kabir ji di bani v SGGS ch daraj hai....oh akde aa....Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name,
'Raam'. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the
son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. || 190 || Kabeer, use the word
'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that
distinction. One 'Raam' (God) is pervading everywhere, while the
other(Dashrath's son) is contained only in himself.
SGGS 1374
ate haan hun tere samajh lagega ke ram ate ramchander(ayodhya rama) ch ki farak hai.......aa lines namdev ji dian han....unha ne badi ashi
taran sapasht kita hai ke ayodhya rama koi god nai hai....
ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁਗੋਂਡ॥ ਆਜੁਨਾਮੇਬੀਠਲੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ
ਕੋ
ਸਮ ਝਾਊ ਰੇ॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮ ਰੀਗਾ ਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਲੋਧੇਕਾ ਖੇਤੁਖਾਤੀਥੀ॥ ਲੈਕਰਿਠੇਗਾਟਗਰੀਤੋਰੀਲਾਂਗਤਲਾਂਗਤਜਾਤੀਥੀ॥੧॥ਪਾਂਡੇਤੁਮਰਾਮਹਾਦ ੇਉਧਉਲੇਬਲਦਚੜਿਆਆਵਤੁਦੇਖਿਆਥਾ॥ਮੋਦੀਕੇਘਰਖਾਣਾਪਾਕਾਵਾਕਾਲੜਕਾਮ ਾਰਿਆਥਾ॥੨॥
ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਰਾਮਚੰਦੁ ਸੋਭੀ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ॥ਰਾਵਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਰਬਰ ਹੋਈ ਘਰ ਕੀ ਜੋ ਇਗਵਾਈ ਥੀ ॥੩॥ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ॥ ਦੁਹਾਂਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਿਆਣਾ॥ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ॥ਨਾ ਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆਜ ਹਦੇਹੁਰਾਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ॥੪॥੩॥੭॥ { bani Namdev ji ਪੰਨਾ 874-875}

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ! ਮੈਂ ਤਾਂ ਇਸੇ ਜਨਮ ਵਿਚ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦਾ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਹੈ (ਪਰ ਤੂੰ ਮੂਰਖ ਹੀ ਰਹਿਓਂ, ਤੈਨੂੰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਇਆ; ਆ) ਮੈਂ (ਤੈਨੂੰ) ਮੂਰਖਨੂੰਸਮਝਾਵਾਂ (ਕਿਤੈਨੂੰਦਰਸ਼ਨਕਿਉਂਨਹੀਂਹੁੰਦਾ)।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
ਹੇਪਾਂਡੇ! (ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਤਾਂਜਿਸ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਦਾ ਤੂੰ ਪਾਠ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਉ ਸਉੱਤੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਸ਼ਰਧਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਬਣ ਸਕਦੀ, ਕਿਉਂਕਿ) ਤੇਰੀ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ (ਉਹ ਰੇ ਤੂੰ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਕਿ ਇਕ ਵਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਾਪ ਦੇ ਕਾਰਨ ਗਊ ਦੀ ਜੂਨ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਕੇ ਇਹ) ਇਕਲੋਧੇ ਜੱਟ ਦੀ ਪੈਲੀ ਖਾਣ ਜਾ ਪਈ, ਉਸਨੇ ਸੋਟਾ ਲੈ ਕੇਲੱਤ ਤੋ ੜ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਤਾਂ (ਵਿਚਾਰੀ)
ਲੰਙਾ ਲੰਙਾ ਕੇ ਤੁਰਨ ਲੱਗੀ।੧।
ਹੇ ਪਾਂਡੇ! (ਫਿਰ ਤੂੰ ਜਿਸ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੀ ਦੀ ਅਰਾਧਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਉਸਨੂੰ ਬੜਾ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੀ ਸਮਝਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਤੇ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਕਿ ਗੁੱਸੇ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਕੇ ਉਹ ਸ੍ਰਾਪ ਦੇ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ, ਭਸਮ ਕਰ ਦੇਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਐਸੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਨਾਲ ਤੂੰ ਪਿਆਰ ਕਿਵੇਂ ਕਰ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈਂ?) ਤੇਰਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ (ਤਾਂ ਉਹ ਹੈ ਜਿਸ ਬਾਰੇ ਤੂੰ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈਂ) ਕਿਸੇ ਭੰਡਾਰੀ ਦੇ ਘਰ ਉਸ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਭੋਜਨ ਤਿਆਰ ਹੋਇਆ, ਸ਼ਿਵ ਨੂੰ ਚਿੱਟੇ ਬਲਦ ਉੱਤੇ ਚੜ੍ਹਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਵੇਖਿਆ, (ਭਾਵ, ਤੂੰ ਦੱ ਸਦਾ ਹੈਂ ਕਿ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਜੀ ਚਿੱਟੇ ਬਲਦ ਦੀ ਸਵਾਰੀ ਕਰਦੇ ਸਨ) (ਪਰ ਸ਼ਾਇਦ ਉਹ ਭੋਜਨ ਪਸੰਦ ਨਾ ਆਇਆ, ਸ਼ਿਵਜੀਨੇਸ੍ਰਾਪਦੇਕੇ) ਉਸਦਾਮੁੰਡਾਮਾਰਦਿੱਤਾ।੨।
ਹੇਪਾਂਡੇ! ਤੇਰੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮ ਚੰਦਰ ਜੀ ਭੀ ਆਉਂਦੇ ਵੇਖੇ ਹਨ (ਭਾਵ, ਜਿਸ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਚੰਦਰ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਤੂੰ ਉਪਾਸ਼ਨਾ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈਂ, ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਬਾਬਤ ਭੀ ਤੈਥੋਂ ਇਹੀ ਕੁਝ ਅਸਾਂ ਸੁਣਿਆ ਹੈ ਕਿ) ਰਾਵਣ ਨਾਲ ਉਹਨਾਂ ਦੀ ਲੜਾਈ ਹੋ ਪਈ, ਕਿਉਂ ਕਿ ਉਹ ਵਹੁਟੀ (ਸੀਤਾਜੀ) ਗਵਾ ਬੈਠੇ ਸਨ।੩।
ate haan SGGS di gal taan badi door di hai aa vekh ke hindu leader hi ki aakde aa ayodhya rama bare..
My Rama (god Rama) is not the Rams of Ramayana
MAHATMA GANDHI
Ramayana and Mahabaratha are nothing but another Arabian Nights
Story.
JAWAHARLAL NEHRU
Rama is not a God; but he is a hero
C. RAJAGOPALACHARI
First Governor General of India &
Ex Chief Minister, Tamil Nadu
Ramayana is not a divine story; it is only a literature
KALIYUGA KAMBAN
T.K. CHIDMIBARNATHA MUDALLAR
yaar je mahatma gandhi verge bande v ayodhya rama nai mande taan tu kyu khamkhah zor lai janda ke SGGS ch v ihi gal aa.....mahatma gandhi
de muh cho hamesha ram nikalda c ate unha ne ih clear kita ke mera ram akna is da matlab ih nai aa ke main ayodhya rama nu God manda haan.....
so BS ki ih kaafi nahi hai ke ayodhya rama ate SGGS ch Ram word ch farak hai......mere khyal ch hun is ch koi shak nai hai ke SGGS ch ayodhya rama
nu koi god mania gaya haan jeda ram word use kita gaya hai usda meaning hor aa....ate SGGS ch ayodhya rama di ki jagah hai oh tu vekh hi liya hai.....
.so tu aa ram da meaning aavde matlab lai kyu varti janda?



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[Ramta]

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jattpunjabi,

Ramayana is not a divine story; it is only a literature

We all know that. Ramayana is not history. but it's not an escape from reality either.
It's indulging oneself in hyper-reality.
Is Guru Granth Divinely ordained ??

tu aa ram da meaning aavde matlab lai kyu varti janda?

"Naame Ke Swami, Siya Bahoree, Lank Vibhikhan Thapyori ...."
"The one who got Sitaji back (from Lanka) and made
Vibhishan the King of Lanka, is the Lord of Namdevji."

This is a Shabd by Sant Namdev in the Guru Granthji where Namdev says
that Lord Ram of Ayodhya is his Lord. Since this Shabd is included in the
Sri Guru Granthji, I believe that according to Gurmat Lord Ram (Sagun Roop)
is same as Waheguru (Nirgun Roop).

What this verse by Namdev means is this :
"The one who got Sitaji back (from Lanka) and made
Vibhishan the King of Lanka, is the Lord of Namdevji."

Sant Kabirji says, "O Param Purukh Devadhidev, Bagat Het Narsimh Bhev ...."
What it means simply is the same Param-Purukh(Purush), who was worshipped
by Prahlad, took the form ( fifth avatar ) of Narsimha.


Then there is this Shloka where Nanak Devji uses the word 'Rama' as synonymous with Vishnu
and proclaims Hin to have taken Ten Avatars.
‘BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESH [SHIVA] the three demigods were created [by God].
He gave BRAHMA the VEDAS and involved them in it’s worship.
Ten Avatars did king RAMA [VISHNU] take.
He attacked and killed demons but all in accordance with God’s command.
God did SHIVA serve but he too did not find his limits.
Attaining true value he created his [heavenly] throne.
He has set the world to task and concealed himself.
He makes all function this Karma is divinely ordained.’

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If you don't want to consider yourself a Hindu I don't really detest it. But it shouldn't
be so due to some inferiority complex viz a viz the blue eyed and white christians/europeans...
But unfortunately that's the case.

All this megaphone prachar of we-believe-in-one-god-and-are-monotheistic
is just an attempt to portray yourself as intellectually in sync with the white europeans.

Sorry to say this but Nanak's followers have let him down. You are more busy
not being Hindu than being Sikh. That's what you have reduced Sikhi to.
An exercise in how not to be a Hindu....

Thanks

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[jattpunjabi]

We all know that. Ramayana is not history.



"Naame Ke Swami, Siya Bahoree, Lank Vibhikhan Thapyori ...."
"The one who got Sitaji back (from Lanka) and made
Vibhishan the King of Lanka, is the Lord of Namdevji."

This is a Shabd by Sant Namdev in the Guru Granthji where Namdev says
that Lord Ram of Ayodhya is his Lord. Since this Shabd is included in the
Sri Guru Granthji, I believe that according to Gurmat Lord Ram (Sagun Roop)
is same as Waheguru (Nirgun Roop).
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ih ramayana bare vichar mere nai aa......hindustan de mahaan leader jo akde han main unha di gal hi chepi hai.


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[Ramta]

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jatt punjabi,

hindustan de mahaan leader jo akde han main unha di gal hi chepi hai.

You had also asked for something which on second thoughts you decided to edit...

Anyways, What I am presenting is the view's of the Sikh Guru's.

gangaa jo godhaavar jaaeeai kunbh jo kaedhaar nhaaeeai gomathee sehas goo dhaan keejai ||
Someone may go to the Ganges or the Godaavari, or to the Kumbha festival,
or bathe at Kaydaar Naat'h, or make donations of thousands of cows at Gomti;
kott jo theerathh karai than jo hivaalae gaarai raam naam sar thoo n poojai ||2||
he may make millions of pilgrimages to sacred shrines, or freeze his body in the Himalayas;
still, none of these is equal to the worship of the Lord's Name. ||2||
as dhaan gaj dhaan sihajaa naaree bhoom dhaan aiso dhaan nith nithehi keejai ||
Someone may give away horses and elephants, or women on their beds, or land;
he may give such gifts over and over again.
aatham jo niramaaeil keejai aap baraabar kanchan dheejai raam naam sar thoo n poojai ||3||
He may purify his soul, and give away in charity his body weight in gold; none of these
is equal to the worship of the Lord's Name. ||3||
manehi n keejai ros jamehi n dheejai dhos niramal nirabaan padh cheenih leejai ||
Do not harbor anger in your mind, or blame the Messenger of Death; instead,
realize the immaculate state of Nirvaanaa.
jasarathh raae nandh raajaa maeraa raam chandh pranavai naamaa thath ras anmrith peejai ||4||4||
My Sovereign Lord King is Raam Chandra,the Son of the King Dasrat'h; prays Naam Dayv,
I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||4||4||​

Saint Nam Dev, Ramkalee, Page 973​

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dhhan dhhann ou raam baen baajai ||
Blessed, blessed is that flute which the Lord plays.

madhhur madhhur dhhun anehath gaajai ||1|| rehaao ||
The sweet, sweet unstruck sound current sings forth. ||1||Pause||
dhhan dhhan maeghaa romaavalee ||
Blessed, blessed is the wool of the sheep;
dhhan dhhan kirasan oudtai kaanbalee ||1||
blessed, blessed is the blanket worn by Krishna. ||1||
dhhan dhhan thoo maathaa dhaevakee ||
Blessed, blessed are you, O mother Dayvakee;
jih grih rameeaa kavalaapathee ||2||
into your home the Lord was born. ||2||
dhhan dhhan ban khandd bindhraabanaa ||
Blessed, blessed are the forests of Brindaaban;
jeh khaelai sree naaraaeinaa ||3||
the Supreme Lord plays there. ||3||
baen bajaavai godhhan charai ||
He plays the flute, and herds the cows;
naamae kaa suaamee aanadh karai ||4||1||
Naam Dayv's Lord and Master plays happily. ||4||1||
maero baap maadhho thoo dhhan kaesa saanvaleeou beethulaae ||1|| rehaao ||
O my Father, Lord of wealth, blessed are You, long-haired, dark-skinned, my darling. ||1||Pause||
kar dhharae chakr baikunth thae aaeae gaj hasathee kae praan oudhhaareealae ||
You hold the steel chakra in Your hand; You came down from Heaven,
and saved the life of the elephant.
dhuhasaasan kee sabhaa dhropathee anbar laeth oubaareealae ||1||
In the court of Duhsaasan, You saved the honor of Dropati, when her clothes were being removed. ||1||
gotham naar ahaliaa thaaree paavan kaethak thaareealae ||
You saved Ahliyaa, the wife of Gautam; how many have You purified and carried across?
aisaa adhham ajaath naamadhaeo tho saranaagath aaeealae ||2||2||
Such a lowly outcaste as Naam Dayv has come seeking Your Sanctuary. ||2||2||
sabhai ghatt raam bolai raamaa bolai ||
Within all hearts, the Lord speaks, the Lord speaks.​

Saint Nam Dev, Raag Maalee Gaurhaa, Page 988

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kaesee kans mathhan jin keeaa ||
The Lord, who killed Kaysee and Kans,
jeea dhaan kaalee ko dheeaa ||
gave the gift of life to Kali.
pranavai naamaa aiso haree ||
Prays Naam Dayv, such is my Lord;

Saint Nam Dev, Raag Gond, Page 874​

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sreerang baikunth kae vaasee ||
The Lover of greatness, who dwells in heaven.
mashh kashh kooram aagiaa aoutharaasee ||
By the Pleasure of His Will, He took incarnation as the great fish and the tortoise.
kaesav chalath karehi niraalae keethaa lorrehi so hoeigaa ||8||
The Lord of beauteous hair, the Worker of miraculous deeds, whatever
He wishes, comes to pass. ||8||
niraahaaree niravair samaaeiaa ||
He is beyond need of any sustenance, free of hate and all-pervading.
dhhaar khael chathurabhuj kehaaeiaa ||
He has staged His play; He is called the four-armed Lord.
saaval sundhar roop banaavehi baen sunath sabh mohaigaa ||9||
He assumed the beautiful form of the blue-skinned Krishna; hearing His flute,
all are fascinated and enticed. ||9||
banamaalaa bibhookhan kamal nain ||
He is adorned with garlands of flowers, with lotus eyes.
sundhar kunddal mukatt bain ||
His ear-rings, crown and flute are so beautiful.
sankh chakr gadhaa hai dhhaaree mehaa saarathhee sathasangaa ||10||
He carries the conch, the chakra and the war club; He is the Great Charioteer, who stays with His Saints. ||10||
peeth peethanbar thribhavan dhhanee ||
The Lord of yellow robes, the Master of the three worlds.
jagannaathh gopaal mukh bhanee ||
The Lord of the Universe, the Lord of the world; with my mouth, I chant His Name.​

Guru Teg Bahadur, Raag Maaroo, Page 1008​

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lakh chouraaseeh jeea jon mehi bhramath nandh bahu thhaako rae ||

Wandering through 8.4 million incarnations, Krishna's father Nand was totally exhausted.
bhagath haeth avathaar leeou hai bhaag baddo bapuraa ko rae ||1||
Because of his devotion, Krishna was incarnated in his home;
how great was the good fortune of this poor man! ||1||​

Saint Kabir, Raag Gaurhee, Page 338​

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Thanks

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[Guest33]

bai tu ithe apni philosphy kion jhadan laggian hain...main tenu suggestion dinni haan ki www.jattworld.com te jake apne views likh ke aa te fer uthe Sarao te LJ dian gallan de jawab dain te nale uh tenu kime soot karde ne tu ih vi dekhi...ithe uyin kion annhiyan ch kana raja baniya firda.....


nale rahi gal kise vi dharam ch similarities di taan har dharam di ik mool sikhia hai vi SAB KA MALIK EK HAI.......hun uhnu kaun kime mannda tenu ki takleef hai.....

jyada SIKHISM de khilaf je bolan di koshish na kar je per vi teri pau theek ni hundi taan jattworld te changi tara theek hoju......

 

[Princess6863]

i dun understand ki y r ppl always sayin ki sikhs r hindus..or part of hindus..pata ni ki dimaag ch ghusseya hoya..pata ni kehra keera hai..kadi kisi muslim nu keha kisi ne ki tusi jews cho nikle te tusi ohi ho..agla wadd ke rakh dao..fer sikhism magre kyo paye rehnde ne..jiven budhism jainism te hor religions nu india ne hinduism naal mila leya hai..osi taraah oh sikhism nu v milaana chaunde ne..je deeply jaake paro te budhism te hinduism ch bahot fark ahi..sab ton vaddi hai moorti pooja..hor v kayi ne..par hindu partiyaan ne mila hi leya jaise taise karke..even Mahatma Budh da ek statue v banaaya..jad ki o h murti pooja de against sige..te ajkal eh ho gaya hai india ch..ki je tusi kisi jaini ya budhist nu jaake poochonge te ohna ne aahi kehna ki asi hindus da hi part haan..and i've personal experience wid that..but China te hor jehri budhist countries ne othe te oh aladha religion hi mande ne..ehi same policy eh sikhaan te v apply karna chaunde .. taahi mandir ch Shrii Guru Granth Sahib leke aa gaye sige..ohna di intentions hi galat sigi..oh aj SGGS nu mandir ch leke gaye sige..kal ohna ne othey Gurus di moorti bana ke rakh dende..pata ni eh ki sochde ne saadi sikh community waare..aankreyaan ch bhavein ghat hai .. par ehni kamjor ni ki eh BulleShah warge lokaan naal dol jaaogi..and eh jehri indirect conversions karna chaunde ne jehre they r niether hindus nor sikhs .. they r jus nthg..coz hindus de kisi v granth ch eh ni likhiya ki hinduism da ehda parchaar karo..smirk
and i wud wanna thank JAttPunjabi and DaTwiana for their posts ..i jus read em today..te bahot knowlegde v milli