ram

[Dhillon]

^tusi ta SGGS kaafi bar padeya lagda

 

[bapu da laadla]

^tusi ta SGGS kaafi bar padeya lagda

bhaji mainu v edai lagda

 

[bapu da laadla]

Thanks for the quotes vishaka but all they show is that there was a zikar of hindu gods which i never denied. i didn't say that SGGS denied the existence of hindu gods. All i said was SGGS never praised or believed in the Hindu gods and their magic or whatever you call it.

Seeing him from a distance, Krishna, the Lord, bowed and leaving his throne came to Sudama.
here krishna considered as lord

 

[Mahaj]

khima da jachak hunda

*krishan brishan ko mae(kabhi) naa dheyaaoo EHDA HUNDA

i apologize ....theek karta mae .....gurbani naal sherkhani lai gustaakhi di maafi chauna sahib de darbaar .......
jachak ee likhna c o L te K gawandi ne na ...taan karkey ...!!

No one is telling anyone to worship Ram ( or anyone else for that matter )
The question is: Does SGGS deny the existence of Raja Ram of Ayodhya ?
No, It doesn't !

mannu ess gal da nahi c pata ...may be mae galat samj geya ...yan eda da ee kujj ....actually ee te hun rubb ee jaanda k tusi eda de verses post karkey ki sabit karna chahunde c ....!!
manahi na kIjai rosu jamahi na dIjai dosu nirmal nirbAN padu cInhi lIjai jasrath rAi nandu rAjA merA rAmcandu praNavai nAmA tatu rasu amritu pIjai (Page 973)
(Do not feel offended in thy mind and attribute not blame to Yama. Contemplate the immaculate dignity of salvation. Namdev prays, my Sovereign Lord is Ramachandra, son of King Dashrath. I quaff the essence of the immortalizing elixir.)
sang sakhA sabh taji ga-e ko-u na nibahi-O sAth kahu nAnak iha bipat mai Tek ek raghnAth
(My companions and friends have all left me. None has remained with me to the last. Nanak says, in this calamity, Raghunath is my only support.)

Seeing him from a distance, Krishna, the Lord, bowed and leaving his throne came to Sudama.
here krishna considered as lord

i m sorry to say .....but the verses u provided in following attachments
Attachment 11321
Attachment 11319
Attachment 11318
are NOT from gurbani ....this is not gurbani ...not even aa single line
this is not gurbani
--------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Dhillon]

i m sorry to say .....but the verses u provided in following attachments
Attachment 11321
Attachment 11319
Attachment 11318
are NOT from gurbani ....this is not gurbani ...not even aa single line
this is not gurbani
--------------------------------------------------------------

Is that a fact ? What about the lines below ?

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥
sathajug thai maaniou shhaliou bal baavan bhaaeiou ||
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
~SGGS Ji ang 1390

 

[Mahaj]

mr dhillon ..ilkali bani naa pesh karo ...naal apni.. pesh karan piche neet yan motive v likho ..fer mae adha ghnta laa k reply karna te tusi kehna ....i m not discussing this i m discussing sumthing else....dudh da sarrea laasi nu fooka marda....lassi nu fooka maar reha mae...eda j ikali bani diplomatic tareeke naal kise seminar yan conference vich bologey te ohna kacha ton chakk k bahar maarna....te bhande majnaey paine aa do hafte darbar sahib ...o vakh ,..!..apna dera kholan vali option aje v open a .,...
aa paste tee keeta /./...vistaar sehat samjao k ee tusi kyu paste keeta ...piche jehe tauhdey valo biyan jari hoea c k tusi sirf ee disacuss kar rahe o k gurbani ram di existance mandi aa k nai .....hun pata nai ki kahogey ..chalo jo v kahogey ..vistaar sehat samja deo ...k ee pauri tusi kyu paste keeti aa......fer jo manu hukam hoega o mae paste karanga ...j typing karni nai chngi lagdi te .....record karkey paa dao ...meharbani
[SIZE=+1]ਹੁਕਮੇ ਵਰਤੈ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਾਣੀ ਹੁਕਮੇ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਆਵਣਿਆ ॥੪॥[/SIZE]

 

[bapu da laadla]

Mahaj bhaji eh bhai gurdas ji diyan vaara han. Te jis gursikh d baani Guru Granth Sahib ji vich darj howe oh galat ne likh sakde.

 

[Mahaj]

^ bhaji ...bhai gurdas got no place in guru granth sahib .....reason te hun yan taan guru arjan nu pata hoega ...te yaan patshai 10 nu .......even some of the works of the guru's is not added to granth by arjan dev......!! jehri gurmat de sidahanta di kasauti te khari uterdi bani c sirf ohi bani darj keeti gayi
SGGS is the supreme code of conduct. j 1430 page parr lae aa te amal kar lea te feel karde o gal nai banni ..den u have right to go for sumthing else

 

[bapu da laadla]

Main tuhdadi es gal na sehmat nahi aa k guru arjun dev ji ne guru sahib ji di puri bani nai likhi. Eh galat hai es gal to ta eh lagda k guru sahib ik nai san te ik soch de malik nai san.

 

[userid 56304]

No one is telling anyone to worship Ram ( or anyone else for that matter )
The question is: Does SGGS deny the existence of Raja Ram of Ayodhya ?
No, It doesn't !

So if i can't deny the existence of fairy god mothers or red faced green goblins or for that matter if i dont deny the existence of unicorns does that mean they exist?


Like Mahaj already mentioned. Ram in Guru Granth Sahib ji means something completely different from the King of Ayodhya.

 

[Dhillon]

So if i can't deny the existence of fairy god mothers or red faced green goblins or for that matter if i dont deny the existence of unicorns does that mean they exist?

https://www.unp.me/f15/ram-141222/#post1967486

Its more than just 'not denying'.

Like Mahaj already mentioned. Ram in Guru Granth Sahib ji means something completely different from the King of Ayodhya.

In SGGS at places Ram refers to God and in places refers to King of Ayodhya,
eh bareek jahi gall tuhaddi moti budhi ch kyu ni aa rahi ?

 

[userid 56304]

https://www.unp.me/f15/ram-141222/#post1967486

Its more than just 'not denying'.



In SGGS at places Ram refers to God and in places refers to King of Ayodhya,
eh bareek jahi gall tuhaddi moti budhi ch kyu ni aa rahi ?

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

Sri Dasam Granth:
ਜਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹੁਇ ਬਿਸਨ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਤਿਓ ਕਾਲ ਖਾਪਿਓ ਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਘਾਏ ॥੨੮॥
All the incarnations of Vishnu like Rama and Krishan were destroyed by KAL, but they could not destroy him. 28.


and
ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥
Somewhere He hath created millions of the worms like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama.

There is only one God and its not Ram - The king of ayodhya. Eh simple jahi gall tuhadey thothey dimag ch kyun ni paindi?

 

[Dhillon]

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥
sathajug thai maaniou shhaliou bal baavan bhaaeiou ||
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
~SGGS Ji ang 1390

 

[userid 56304]

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥
sathajug thai maaniou shhaliou bal baavan bhaaeiou ||
In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||
In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥
dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||
In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥
ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||
You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥
kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||
In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.
~SGGS Ji ang 1390

Let me quote a post form sikh philosiphy network if that helps anyone understand better. The baani that you posted above is Bhatt-Bani not Gur-Bani or Bhagat-Bani.

Significance of Bhatt-Bani

"The Swayyas composed by the Bhatts are unique in the sense that they are testimony to the spiritual heights of Gurbani. The Bhatts did not belong to the family circle of the Gurus, nor were they associates of the Bhagats. They came to realize the Divine Essence present in the Gurus in person and in their sacred Word. Their recognition of the greatness of Gurus speaks eloquently in their verses and hymns.


The linking of Guru Nanak and other Gurus with Raja Janak, may be an off-shoot of the Bhatts’ way of looking at the historical-mythological tradition of India. They believe it was Nanak and none else who operated in the person of Ram and Krishna. This is their own unique way of expressing their sentiments. They adopted the poetic metre Swayya for paying tributes to the Gurus, even though they were quite familiar with the use of classical Raags in Gurbani. Whatever the methods and means they chose for their poetry, their dedication to the Gurus is evident and crystal clear."



The context in which everything said in Guru Granth Sahib ji is also important to get the complete meaning. Hope this helps.

 

[Dhillon]

Bits and pieces are not going to help anyone. Read SGGS to clear your doubts.

here is a good link: Waheguru.com - Sri Guru Granth Sahib

 

[Mahaj]

https://www.unp.me/f15/ram-141222/#post1967486

Its more than just 'not denying'.



In SGGS at places Ram refers to God and in places refers to King of Ayodhya,
eh bareek jahi gall tuhaddi moti budhi ch kyu ni aa rahi ?

5 7 lakh chooche khaa k ..ik gulabi jeeb vali billi ...hun hajj nu tur pai ....
beebe kabooter vali kahani parri kise ne..? ik kabooter hunda c rati barrey parr marney ohney ....jado ode kol kise ne jana ohne beeba bann k beh jana ...ethe v ik beeba kbooter turi firda.......jehra kehnda mae v te ehi kehnda c ................lol
gal karan piche jehri neet hhundi aa...ooh bahut farak paundi aa.....badneeti ..marri neet naal bolea sach ...jooth ton v marra hunda...
anyway.........breeek budhi valeo ..chalkian chaddo ..te apney chehre ton nikaab lao ........ee bahtt banni de start vala heading parro ....ee babe nanak lai keha jaa reha ...and praises aa....ee koi gurmat vallo farmaaan nai ditta jaa reha .....breek budhi valeo ...j tuahdi budhi bareek aa te ee gal di te thnu sari samj hunni aa.....
[SIZE=+1]ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਕੇ ੧[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
सवईए महले पहिले के १[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Sava▫ī▫e mahle pahile ke 1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Swaiyas In Praise Of The First Mehl:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:[/SIZE]
ee iss bani da heading da .......har ik bani da heading a ..te oss ehading de according oss vich bani aa.....hun breek budhi valea nu te ee sara pata hunna.......
piche jehe ik ajehe breek budhi ne ik pankti da hwala de k raula paa ta k baba nanak tambakoo peenda c......o te fer ohnu akal purakh ne samat bakshi ....umeed aa ethe v kise nu bakshega samat parmaatma
gurbani ch har bani de heading aa...jida anand bani aa .oss vich v koi toss hukam nai aa ...oo parmaatma nu paa laein vali awasta da jikar aa....eda e chandd ne...te gaathaaa v hae jiss vich khania rahi samjaea geya ........sid gosht vich yogian te breek budhi valea nu chuk chuk marea....jida japuji ch kida direct hukam vajda starting vich ||japu||
ik hor bareek budhi valey ne te ragmala da hawala de k raaga guruan nu raag bhagat banna ta....o te fer ohne dhyaan naal heading parrea hunna fer dhyaan naal ander ...te fer hatea ohh ...!!lol
ehi breeek budhi valea de sadka....darbar sahib vich moorti pooja shuru ho gayi c.....
hun fer breek budhi ne ,,meri uper kise breek gal nu farr laina .....beeba kaboter vang ..k mae v ehi kehnda c ....kehnda te c ..te pcihe neet ki kehndi c?

 

[bapu da laadla]

sare veer plz shado yar es gal nu....... ram bagwan nai san sirf avtari puras san.... bhagwan ta oh akalpurakh hai jo sareya da malak hai...

 

[saini2004]

Mr Admin r u a member of RSS or VHP?

 

[pps309]

5 7 lakh chooche khaa k ..ik gulabi jeeb vali billi ...hun hajj nu tur pai ....
beebe kabooter vali kahani parri kise ne..? ik kabooter hunda c rati barrey parr marney ohney ....jado ode kol kise ne jana ohne beeba bann k beh jana ...ethe v ik beeba kbooter turi firda.......jehra kehnda mae v te ehi kehnda c ................lol
gal karan piche jehri neet hhundi aa...ooh bahut farak paundi aa.....badneeti ..marri neet naal bolea sach ...jooth ton v marra hunda...
anyway.........breeek budhi valeo ..chalkian chaddo ..te apney chehre ton nikaab lao ........ee bahtt banni de start vala heading parro ....ee babe nanak lai keha jaa reha ...and praises aa....ee koi gurmat vallo farmaaan nai ditta jaa reha .....breek budhi valeo ...j tuahdi budhi bareek aa te ee gal di te thnu sari samj hunni aa.....
[SIZE=+1]ਸਵਈਏ ਮਹਲੇ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਕੇ ੧[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]
सवईए महले पहिले के १[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Sava▫ī▫e mahle pahile ke 1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Swaiyas In Praise Of The First Mehl:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:[/SIZE]
ee iss bani da heading da .......har ik bani da heading a ..te oss ehading de according oss vich bani aa.....hun breek budhi valea nu te ee sara pata hunna.......
piche jehe ik ajehe breek budhi ne ik pankti da hwala de k raula paa ta k baba nanak tambakoo peenda c......o te fer ohnu akal purakh ne samat bakshi ....umeed aa ethe v kise nu bakshega samat parmaatma
gurbani ch har bani de heading aa...jida anand bani aa .oss vich v koi toss hukam nai aa ...oo parmaatma nu paa laein vali awasta da jikar aa....eda e chandd ne...te gaathaaa v hae jiss vich khania rahi samjaea geya ........sid gosht vich yogian te breek budhi valea nu chuk chuk marea....jida japuji ch kida direct hukam vajda starting vich ||japu||
ik hor bareek budhi valey ne te ragmala da hawala de k raaga guruan nu raag bhagat banna ta....o te fer ohne dhyaan naal heading parrea hunna fer dhyaan naal ander ...te fer hatea ohh ...!!lol
ehi breeek budhi valea de sadka....darbar sahib vich moorti pooja shuru ho gayi c.....
hun fer breek budhi ne ,,meri uper kise breek gal nu farr laina .....beeba kaboter vang ..k mae v ehi kehnda c ....kehnda te c ..te pcihe neet ki kehndi c?

Pata ni 22 ji eh neet aa ke apne aap nu samjhan di ghaat aa.
Ram nu Shri Ram sabat karan ya fer kesh katal karoun nu sahi sabat karan lai bade Gurbani de hawale dinde aa.
Jad sharab di botal da dutt khulda oss time Gurbani de mayane kithe chale jaande aa?

Let me quote a post form sikh philosiphy network if that helps anyone understand better. The baani that you posted above is Bhatt-Bani not Gur-Bani or Bhagat-Bani.

Significance of Bhatt-Bani

"The Swayyas composed by the Bhatts are unique in the sense that they are testimony to the spiritual heights of Gurbani. The Bhatts did not belong to the family circle of the Gurus, nor were they associates of the Bhagats. They came to realize the Divine Essence present in the Gurus in person and in their sacred Word. Their recognition of the greatness of Gurus speaks eloquently in their verses and hymns.


The linking of Guru Nanak and other Gurus with Raja Janak, may be an off-shoot of the Bhatts’ way of looking at the historical-mythological tradition of India. They believe it was Nanak and none else who operated in the person of Ram and Krishna. This is their own unique way of expressing their sentiments. They adopted the poetic metre Swayya for paying tributes to the Gurus, even though they were quite familiar with the use of classical Raags in Gurbani. Whatever the methods and means they chose for their poetry, their dedication to the Gurus is evident and crystal clear."



The context in which everything said in Guru Granth Sahib ji is also important to get the complete meaning. Hope this helps.

It should.


Baki 22 jisne Ram pujna Ram nu pujo, jisne Hanuman pujna oh Hanuman nu pujo. Jisne kisse nu v ni pujna, oh v apni marzi da maalak aa.
Par apni philosphy nu Guruan-Peeran di philosphy di rangat chaad ke oss Guru naal ahsan-faramoshi naa karo.