Dividing Sikhism From Hinduism

Panjaban

*~DoAbAn~*
Ah "bulleshah" da qissa fer shuru ho gya? Barra hee dheeth banda hai eh...but plz unpians, dnt pay attention to this fool and waste ur time. Ohdi ah nonsense philosophy parh k koi ni ithe apni thinking change karn laga... koi nai apna dharam (sikhi) nu shaddan laga.. so let him waste his time.. tusi saare tension kion lainnde?
 

Ramta

Member
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bulleshah,
"[Sacrificer:] 'They are pressing out the impetuous, exhilarating Soma juices with the pressing-stone, for you, Indra. Drink them! They are cooking bulls for you; you will eat them, generous Indra, when they summon you with food.' " -- Rig Veda 10:28:3.

"[Indra:] 'They have cooked for me fifteen bulls, and twenty, so that I may eat the fat as well. Both sides of my belly are full.' " -- Rig Veda 10:86:14.

Thanks.


To the uninstructed Aryan worshipper, the Maruts were powers of wind, storm and rain; it is the images of the tempest that are most commonly applied to them and they are spoken of as the Rudras, the fierce, impetuous ones, - a name that they share with the god of Force, Agni.

Indra is described sometimes as the eldest of the Maruts, - indrajyestho marudganah, - yet they would seem at first to belong rather to the domain of Vayu, the Wind-God, who in the Vedic system is the Master of Life, inspirer of that Breath or dynamic energy, called the Prana.

Soma is the Lord of the wine of delight, the wine of immortality. Like Agni he is found in the plants, the growths of earth, and in the waters. The Soma-wine used in the external sacrifice is the symbol of this wine of delight. It is pressed out by the pressing-stone (adri, gravan) which has a close symbolic connection with the thunderbolt, the formed electric force of Indra also called adri. The Vedic hymns speak of the luminous thunders of this stone as they speak of the light and sound of Indra's weapon. Once pressed out as the delight of existence Soma has to be purified through a strainer (pavitra) and through the strainer he streams in his purity into the wine bowl (camu) in which he is brought to the sacrifice, or he is kept in jars (kalasa) for Indra's drinking. Or, sometimes, the symbol of the bowl or the jar is neglected and Soma is simply described as flowing in a river of delight to the seat of the Gods, to the home of Immortality.

That these things are symbols is very clear in most of that hymns of the ninth Mandala which are all devoted to the God Soma:

"In sweetest and most gladdening stream
flow pure, O Soma, on thy way,
Pressed out for Indra, for his drink.....
....By means of this eternal fleece may Surya's Daughter purify
Thy Soma that is foaming forth.
Ten sister maids of slender form seize him within the press and hold
Him firmly on the final day.
The virgins send him forth: they blow the the skin musician-like and fuse
The triple foe-repelling meath.
Inviolable milch-kine round about him blend for Indra's drink,
The fresh young Soma with their milk...."
Soma Pavamana : Hymn I, Rig Veda
CLICK

Soma, flow on, inviting Gods, speed to the purifying cloth:
Pass into Indra, as a Bull.
2 As mighty food speed hitherward, Indu, as a most splendid Steer:
Sit in thy place as one with strength.
Soma Pavamana : Hymn II, Rig Veda


WHAT THE BULL SIGNIFIES I WILL TELL YOU LATER...

To translate the Veda is to border upon an attempt at the impossible.
The Veda is a book of esoteric symbols, almost of spiritual formulae, which masks itself as a collection of ritual poems. The inner sense is psychological, universal, impersonal; the ostensible significance and the figures which were meant to reveal to the initiates what they concealed from the ignorant, are to all appearance crudely concrete, intimately personal, loosely occasional and allusive. A literal and external translation gives either a bizarre, unconnected sequence of sentences or a form of thought and speech strange and remote to the uninitiated intelligence. It is only when the figures and symbols are made to suggest their concealed equivalents that there emerges out of the obscurity a transparent and well-linked though close and subtle sequence of spiritual, psychological and religious ideas.

RigVeda is high-class poetry. It is sheer poverty of imagination to read poetry suppressing symbolism. Veda itself says there is a secret in RigVeda. That secret must be the symbolism. A symbol attempts to describe an experience beyond the realm of the senses. Symbols can be either auditory or visual. For persons who have the gift, hearing a word can create an impression in the inner being which conveys the full power of the symbol. There are four classes of symbols in the RV. Firstly, the devās, Agni, Indra and so on and the devīs Sarasvati, Sarama and Mahī represent distinct types of divine powers and associated functions. In the second class are Vŗtra, Vāla and Shuşĥņa, the powers of falsehood. The third class of symbols consists of the common nouns like go, cow, ashva, horse, adri, hill, āpaĥ, waters, nadi, rivers, vŗka, wolf etc. Lastly is the class of the names associated with the sages and poets like Kaņva and Kutsa.

Each member of these four classes represents a distinct psychological power which is helpful or otherwise. The unravelling of the symbolism behind each word was done by Sri Aurobindo using his intuition. But we do not have to merely believe what they say. We can set up concrete objective tests to determine whether the symbolic meanings suggested by them are correct or not.

For instance, take the word go which ordinarily means cattle. It and its synonyms like usra occur in more than one thousand verses. Of course, many of these verses may involve other members of the four classes like adri, hill. Regard all these words in these verses as unknown. Substitute the symbolic meanings for the unknowns and see whether the verse makes sense. For the verses involving go, all the verses make excellent sense except those where go is used as a simile in which case it is an animal.

A few examples will show what the gulf is and how it was created. When we write in a recognized and conventional imagery, "Laxmi and Saraswati refuse to dwell under one roof", the European reader may need a note or a translation of the phrase into its plain unfigured thought, "Wealth and Learning seldom go together", before he can understand, but every Indian already possesses the sense of the phrase. But if another culture and religion had replaced the Puranic and Brahminical and the old books and the Sanskrit language had ceased to be read and understood, this now familiar phrase would have been as meaningless in India as in Europe. Some infallible commentator or ingenious scholar might have been proving to our entire satisfaction that Laxmi was the Dawn and Saraswati the Night or that they were two irreconcilable chemical substances - or one knows not what else!

When we read "Sarama by the path of the Truth discovers the herds", the mind is stopped and baffled by an unfamiliar language. It has to be translated to us, like the phrase about Saraswati to the European, into a plainer and less figured thought, "Intuition by the way of the Truth arrives at the hidden illuminations." Lacking the clue, we wander into ingenuities about the Dawn and the Sun or even imagine in Sarama, the hound of heaven, a mythological personification of some prehistoric embassy to somk nations for the recovery of plundered cattle!

As to that quote from the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad ...so what?

...besides the Veda's were never considered to be the ultimate
in wisdom. No scripture can ever be the ultimate in wisdom.
Not the Vedas, not the Geeta, not the Bible, Not the Quran,
not the Guru Granthji......

THANKS

What, in the first place, is the Veda?

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Sonia_Nz

>>>>MaHiYa<<<<
22ji why do u copy and paste stufff
u haven't got smethin to say
luks to me u haven't got ne idea either wot u goin on abt :an
 

Ramta

Member
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Vaar 17 Pauri 21 Vaaran Bhai Gurdasji
counting the slanderers and apostates

Millions are slanderers, millions are apostates and
millions of wicked persons are untrue to their salt.
Unfaithful, ungrateful, thieves, vagabonds and millions
of other infamous persons are there.
Thousands are there who are slayers
of Brahmin, cow, and their own family.


jattpunjabi,

Too bad the RSS and Brahminical liar named Bhai Gurdas is not progressive enough to have realised that beef-eating
is nothing wrong and infact beef is very nutritious like our progressive Neo-London-Toronto-Sikh friends do.
And this RSS man, Gurdasji, even went so far as to include cow killing as one of the traits of slanderers and apostates...
Ahmad Shah Abdali had done a very progressive thing when he slaughtered cows in Har Mandir
while backward people like Bhai Gurdas were trying to keep Sikhs down under the Brahminical yoke.

Thanks

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Sonia_Nz

>>>>MaHiYa<<<<
What do you want me to do ?
Concoct Bhai Gurdasji's verses ??

Thanks

why don't u give ur views over an issue
y is it lke every timee some1 contradicts yh u can't answer them back with ur ideas u haftaaa copy stuff off frm the net
n half of them doesn't mke ne sense at all too
so y dun u be original......life wld jus b fine for every1 :nail
 

Sonia_Nz

>>>>MaHiYa<<<<
hun vekhi ehnu offline ho jana... kal aau material copy karke :roll :roll

naaa ehdaa saraaa masalaaa mukk gayaaa
jihnaa ku copy kittaa si dujiaaa websitess tooh
oh teh saraa chep dittaaaa hun apnaa teh dimaag nai heggaaa
vayiii jawaab deh sakee so eslaii hun bhajj jayeoo kal nu horr material labhoo
kaaafi hi vehlaaa jawaaak ahh :roll :roll
 

Sonia_Nz

>>>>MaHiYa<<<<
thonu hassi ahh rahi ahhh
he jus made me maddddddd
bahleeee saaalaan baadh meraaa suttaa peyaa gussaa jagiaa ahh ajjj :an :an
 
BS, ajj main last vaar is masle ch post karan lagga haan ke sikh ate hindu religion alag alag kyu han......is tou pishon main kade v teri koi non sense post nai padhni........par main post late nite karunga gym tou vaapis aake........tame lagg jana.......kyuke ik taan meri taping shpeed v ghat aa ate ik copy paste v karna kush.......ate istou pishon koi shak nai reh jana ke hindu sikh alag dharam han ke ik dharam.......hope ke tu samjhenga
 

Dhillon

Dhillon Sa'aB™
Staff member
gal sunle tu te dhillon...

dhilloin gal sun bai

tenu baaada bai bai karke dekhleya.. sanu c gaaa k we r family.. but tu yaaaar sanu kade apna samjhyeaa nahi aaaa jamure nu tu apne dil naaal lai firda...

rahi gal teri bulle.. gal sun

it seasy to find negativitie sin everythin.. koi v vehla banda -ves kise ch v kad sakda.. bt kadan waaala koi banda naaahi hjaleel hi kahaunda...


j dil dita rabb ne taa +ves nu dekjkh.. but je ute wale ne ini akal diti hundi taa shayad aa nobvat naa aundi..

dhillon tu bai aj dillo utar geya...



te bulle rahi gal clown di clown hounga tera budda :kuto


te dhillon tu aj to bai nahi reha.. tu jo karna kar mera.. tu dillo utar geyaaa yaaar

It hurts to know that a single action was all it took to loose the respect you guys had for me,I'd thought we had much stronger bonds.
 

munda_wakhre_type_da

-- Kem da Gui --
It hurts to know that a single action was all it took to loose the respect you guys had for me,I'd thought we had much stronger bonds.

veere jattpunjabi veer sahi kereya..main baada tate ja hoke eh sab likheya..

u know apan sare ure jado milde haaan mohali ch yaar velli taa kini waaar holeya yaar k we all discuss k wh dhillon takes his side.. bai ahi gam maarjandaaa

so dil te naa leyo.. sure we have more stronger bonds te respect bt sometimes choti choti galan te ainwe bol ho janda.. i guess tusi ta wade bhai hi hon te asin nike eh harqatan immature waliyaa kar sakde..

so i apppologise ae veeer.. te main ageyo khaadi peeti ch posts kat hi kareya karungaaa

te usne clown ja likheya c taaa paara ja high hogeya c....

sorry bro

 

rockaclimba

Member
So, once again...we all started unwanted cruttle-fruttle over a small issue. This is what we Punjabi's are. I do not know who is moderator here but I go with Bulle Shah..

1. His post is about a subject and people should respond accordingly.
2. This heat and anger is uncalled for and only shows how rigid and stubborn we are...still in 2007 and sitting in some most developed nations.
3. There was no need to abuse or treat him as DHILLON has done.

TO DHILLON: If you are moderator, then I can not say anything to you because you have your own policy and vision about posts and people coming here and expressing views and experiences.

But if you are not a moderator- then please take note that we are only discussing a point...a dimension..you can write your view..or just simply say, YOU DO NT AGREE WITH SOURCE OF HIS POST.
Thats it...

I have now no more intention to write on original subject....will be following later.
 
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