Creation Vs Evolution

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Old 31-Mar-2007
Creation Vs Evolution

During the past century, the issue of creation verses evolution has become a volatile conflict. In my opinion, the conflict was inevitable; science and religion are intended to address two completely different facets of life on Earth. Some religious groups, though, believe that the answers to all of life’s questions can be found in the Bible. This being said, however, many other religious groups acknowledge that their sacred texts were never intended to explain natural phenomena, but instead were intended to help explain spiritual phenomena. The main opponent of evolution is creationism, which attempts to use various literalist interpretations of the Bible to explain life on Earth. Therefore many creationist attacks against evolution appropriately come from a religious stance ( “evolution is only believed by dogmatic atheists.” ). In order to do this I have supplied some general information about what is arguably the world’s oldest theistic/non-theistic religions and their views of evolution.

Indic Dharma:

Thought to be the world’s oldest religion, Hinduism is practiced mainly in India and Nepal. Hinduism has no founder and as such, anyone who practices Dharma can call himself a Hindu. The Hindu Gods are Brahma (the creator), Vishnu (the protector), and Shiva (the destroyer). The four major schools of Hinduism are Shaivism (worship Lord Shiva and emphasize yoga), Shaktism (emphasize rituals and chants), Vaishnavism (worship of Lord Vishnu, emphasis on devotion) and Smartism (emphasis on self-realization and knowledge through study, reflection and meditation). All schools of Hinduism share the ideals of: happiness for all people, the truth, unity of religions, and the universe is one family. An interesting Hindu belief is that “no particular religion teaches the only way to salvation above all others.”

Though Hinduism has no leader, it is said that “Hinduism believes in the concept of evolution of life on Earth, although it is not the same as the one known to modern science, in many ways and in a very fundamental sense, it is not much different.” Though Hinduism believes that life on Earth has evolved, it prefers to focus on the evolution of human consciousness.

Hindu/Bodhi/Sikh Dharma teaches that all things are impermanent, constantly arising, becoming, changing and fading . Indic philosophers consequently rejected the Platonic idea of production from 'ideal forms' as being the fallacy of 'production from inherently existent other'. According to most schools of Hindu-Dharma there is nothing whatsoever that is inherently or independently existent..

The two main creationist objections to evolution are:
1- Disagreement with "Genesis"
2- Blurring of the theological distinction between human and animal

Neither of these pose any threat to Hindu philosophy. This is not a worry to Hinduists because there is no corresponding Hindu creation myth, and Hindu/Buddhist philosophers have always accepted that the universe is many hundreds of millions of years old.

The second theological objection is that evolution states that there is a continuum between ape and man, ie human and animal.(A favourite anti-evolutionary slogan is 'Don't let them make a Monkey of You! ). This is not a problem for Hindus/Buddhists/Sikh, who believe that both humans and animals possess sentient minds which survive death.

Evolution is not solely the belief of atheists, but it is accepted by monotheistic as well as polytheistic religions.. The common theme amongst these theistic/Non-theistic religions is belief and practice of religion will lead to happiness – rare is that religion which attempts to explain earthly as well as spiritual phenomena. It may also be helpful to note that some atheistic religions, though they do not worship a God and do believe in evolution, are not necessarily evil, for example, Buddhism.



Old 22-Apr-2007
Re: Creation Vs Evolution

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This is a continuation of my previous post :

Creation Vs Evolution

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"Creation" according to Genesis

...refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth by the Hebrew deity YHWH Elohim as depicted in Genesis, the first book of the Pentateuch (as well as of the Hebrew and Christian Bible). The text spans chapters 1 and 2 of the book of Genesis. There are many English translations, including those from the original Hebrew and from the Latin Vulgate.

The Genesis creation accounts have long been the subject of debate among scholars on several fronts; the most hotly debated issues relate to authorship, textual criticism (specifically, whether there is a single or dual account), and interpretation of the text (particularly in the context of scientific knowledge regarding the age of the Earth and origins of biological species).

Genesis is part of the canonical scriptures in Christianity and Judaism, and to a lesser degree in Islam, and thus to believers is taken as being of spiritual significance with most treating it as being inspired by God in some manner.

The opening of Genesis tells the biblical story of creation and how it was completed. The first verse of Genesis 1 begins with a description of how God (Hebrew: Elohim) created Heaven and Earth. The text thus begins by establishing a series of dualisms (heaven and earth, light and dark, day and night etc) by which the created order is progressively completed, with God creating or completing by means of the movement of his "spirit" (Hebrew: ruach) moving across the deeps (Hebrew: tehom). Creation is started or completed both by speaking (e.g. "Let there be light") and actively working ("dividing the light from the darkness") over a period of six days.

Note that the chapter and verse divisions in modern Bibles were added in the 13th century C.E. and are absent in the original Hebrew text.
The account opens with the statement: "In the beginning, Elohim (God) created the heavens and the earth." This is taken by some interpreters as a summary statement for what follows, and by others as a description of God's initial creative act. Some translators prefer "In the beginning when Elohim created the heavens and the earth, ..." thus linking the first and second sentences.

Creation Week :

First day: Light is created ("Let there be light.") The source of light is not mentioned; it is described by some as a "primordial light". The light is divided from the darkness, and called "good" by God. The statement in verse 8 that "there was evening and there was morning" is often cited as the reason that the Jewish day starts at sunset.
Second day: The firmament of Heaven is created. The waters above it are separated from the waters below.
Third day: Land appears, separated from the waters, and named. The water is also named. Then God lets the earth put forth Grass, herbs and fruit-bearing trees.
Fourth day: Lights are created in the firmament of Heaven, appearing regularly, aiding time-keeping. Two particularly large lights are made, the lesser one the Moon and the greater one the Sun.
Fifth day: Air and sea creatures are created, including "great sea-monsters" or "great whales". They are commanded to be fruitful and multiply.
Sixth day: God lets the earth bring forth Land animals, and God calls them good. Man and woman are created in God's image. They are told to "be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it." Humans and animals are given plants to eat. The totality of creation is described by God as "very good".
Seventh day: God rests, and blesses the seventh day, and sanctifies it.

The text continues with what some consider to be a different account of creation. (Others consider it to be an account of the details of Day 6, whereas the previous chapter presents a broader view. It is often referred to as the "Yahwist" version (see below) because it refers to the deity as YHWH elohim (where the first account simply uses Elohim).

This account has man (adam) being created first out of the dust of the ground (adamah), when "no bush of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprung up." A garden is then planted "in Eden, in the east" and God puts the man in the garden to tend it.

We are given a description of four rivers which water the garden: the Pishon, the Gihon, the Hiddekel (Tigris) and the Euphrates. Several locations are mentioned, including Cush and Assyria. Scholars thus generally consider that Eden was located in Mesopotamia, though differences of opinion exist and creationist advocates of a global flood theory contend that due to the total destruction of the antediluvian world it is impossible for Eden to be precisely located.

We are introduced to the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. God then decides the man needs a companion and makes the animals and birds, presenting them to him for naming, but none are suitable. Lastly, he creates woman (ishah) from one of the man's (ish) ribs. A statement instituting marriage follows: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

The story of man's expulsion from Eden then follows, building upon the setting and characters introduced here.

The text does not name its author, and a variety of theories have arisen regarding its authorship.

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"Creation" according to Quran

God (Arabic:Allah), in the Quran, says:

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing." [21:30]

Islam, like the Judeo-Christian traditions, says that the universe was created in "days" or "steps":

"Verily your Lord is God, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority), regulating and governing all things." [10:3].

The Quran declares:

"Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient. Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower." [41: 11-12]

Regarding the creation of the Earth, the Quran says:

"He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance)." [41:10]

"And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!" [51:48]

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Creation according to Hindu

The Hindu/Vedic texts such as the Srimad Bhagavatam describe that God in His form of the Primeval 'Maha-Vishnu' lies on the 'causal ocean' and as he exhales, countless numbers of universes are created from the pores in His skin. Then as He inhales, they are brought back into His body and become unmanifest again until the time of His next outward breath. Each breath is equivalent to many billions of years according to our calculation.

The first living being created in each universe is called 'Brahma' and is given the task of creating a diversity of life and environments within that particular universe. According to people's karma from the last universe they are put into appropriate bodies in the new one, anything from being Brahma themselves to being a small ant, and the cycle continues for infinity. More purified souls are given the task of stewardship over the existence in a similar fashion to Brahma, and are known as 'devas' but none have his specific powers.

Maha-Vishnu originates from The Supreme Person (Paramatma) - whose abode is beyond this material world. It is said that the material universes exist in a small space of an infinite and eternal 'spiritual sky', known as Vaikuntha. The spiritual sky, Vaikuntha, is beyond our material conceptions being filled with eternity, knowledge and bliss. In Vaikuntha it is said that "time is conspicuous by its absence" and thus there is no creation or dissolution. It is not destroyed when the material universes become unmanifest, but stays as it is.

The Mahaa-Vishnu, into whom all the innumerable universes enter and from whom they come forth again simply by His breathing process, is a plenary expansion of Krishna. Therefore I worship Govinda, Krishna, the cause of all causes.
(Brahma-samhitaa 5.48)

In Hindu philosophy, the existence of the universe is governed by the Trimurti of Brahma (the Creator), Vishnu (the Sustainer) and Shiva (the Destroyer). The sequence of Avatars of Vishnu- the Dasavatara (Sanskrit: Dasa—ten, Avatara—incarnation) is generally accepted by most Hindus today as correlating well with Darwin's theory of evolution, the first Avatar generating from the environment of water.

Hindus thus do not see much conflict between creation and evolution. An additional reason for this could also be the Hindu concept of cyclic time, such as yugas, or days of Brahma in approximately 4.3 billion year cycles (unlike the concept of linear time in many other religions). In fact, time is represented as Kaala Chakra — the Wheel of Time.

In Hinduism, nature and all of God's creations are manifestations of Him. He is within and without his creations, pervading the entire universe and also observing it externally. Hence all animals and humans have a divine element in them that is covered by the ignorance and illusions of material or profane existence.

Another Hindu creation story is as follows :

This universe existed in the shape of darkness, unperceived, destitute of distinctive marks, unattainable by reasoning, unknowable, wholly immersed, as it were, in deep sleep. Then the Divine Self-existent, himself indiscernible but making all this, the great elements and the rest, discernible, appeared with irresistible power, dispelling the darkness.

He who can be perceived by the internal organ alone, who is subtle, indiscernible, and eternal, who contains all created beings and is inconceivable, shone forth of his own will. He, desiring to produce beings of many kinds from his own body, first with a thought created the waters, and placed his seed in them. That seed became a golden egg, in brilliancy equal to the sun; in that egg he himself was born as Brahma, the progenitor of the whole world....

The Divine One resided in that egg during a whole year, then he himself by his thought divided it into two halves; And out of those two halves he formed heaven and earth, between them the middle sphere, the eight points of the horizon, and the eternal abode of the waters. From himself he also drew forth the mind, which is both real and unreal, likewise from the mind ego, which possesses the function of self-consciousness and is lordly.

Moreover, the great one, the soul, and all products affected by the three qualities, and, in their order, the five organs which perceive the objects of sensation. But, joining minute particles even of those six, which possess measureless power, with particles of himself, he created all beings.

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Creation according to Boddhi

Buddhism generally ignores the question regarding the origin of life. The Buddha regarding the origin of life has said "Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.", and in regard to ignoring the question of the origin of life the Buddha has said "And why are they undeclared by me? Because they are not connected with the goal, are not fundamental to the holy life. They do not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calming, direct knowledge, self-awakening, Unbinding. That's why they are undeclared by me.". The Buddha also compared the question of the origin of life - as well as many other metaphysical questions - to the parable of the poison arrow: a man is shot with a poison arrow, but before the doctor pulls it out, he wants to know who shot it (arguing the existence of God), where the arrow came from (where the universe and/or God came from) why that person shot it (why God created the universe), etc. If the man keeps asking these questions before the arrow is pulled out, the Buddha reasoned, he will die before he gets the answers. Buddhism is less concerned with answering questions like the origin of life, and more concerned with the goal of saving oneself and other beings from suffering by attaining Enlightenment, or Nirvana. However, the esoteric Buddhist teaching, the Kalachakra Tantra, deals with the formation and functioning of reality. Modern day Buddhists such as the Dalai Lama don't perceive a conflict between Buddhism and science and consider they are complementary means of understanding the world around us.

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Creation according to Jaini

According to Jain beliefs, the universe was never created, nor will it ever cease to exist. It is eternal but not unchangeable, because it passes through an endless series of cycles. Each of these upward or downward cycles is divided into six world ages (yugas). The present world age is the fifth age of one of these "cycles", which is in a downward movement. These ages are known as "Aaro" as in "Pehela Aara" or First Age, "Doosra Aara" or Second Age and so on. The last one is the "Chhatha Aara" or Sixth Age. All these ages have fixed time durations of thousands of years.
When this reaches its lowest level, even Jainism itself will be lost in its entirety. Then, in the course of the next upswing, the Jain religion will be rediscovered and reintroduced by new leaders called Tirthankaras (literally "Crossing Makers" or "Ford Finders"), only to be lost again at the end of the next downswing, and so on.

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Creation according to Sikh

The following is an excerpt from the Sikh holy text (Guru Granth Sahib):

For millions upon millions, countless years was spread darkness,
When existed neither earth nor heaven, but only the limitless Divine Ordinance.
Then existed neither day or night, nor sun or moon;
As the Creator was absorbed in an unbroken trance.
Existed then neither forms of creation, nor of speech; neither wind nor water.
Neither was creation or disappearance or transmigration.
Then were not continents, neither regions, the seven seas, nor rivers with water flowing.
Existed then neither heaven or the mortal world or the nether world;
Neither hell or heaven or time that destroys.
Hell and heaven, birth and death were then not--none arrived or departed.
Then were not Brahma, Vishnu or Shiva:
None other than the Sole Lord was visible.
Neither existed then female or male, or caste and birth--
None suffering and joy received.
Unknowable Himself, was He the source of all utterance; Himself the unknowable unmanifested.
As it pleased Him, the world He created;
Without a supporting power the expanse He sustained.
Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva He created and to maya-attachment gave increase.
(To a rare one was the Master's Word imparted.)
Himself He made His Ordinance operative and watched over it:
Creating continents, spheres and nether worlds, the hidden He made manifest.
Creating the universe Himself, He has remained unattached.
The compassionate Lord too has made the holy center [the human being].
Combining air, water, and fire, He created the citadel of the body.
The Creator fashioned the Nine Abodes [of sensation];
In the Tenth [the superconscious mind] is lodged the Lord, unknowable, limitless.
The illimitable Lord in His unattributed state of void assumed might;
He, the infinite One, remaining detached:
Displaying his power, He himself from the void created inanimate things.
From the unattributed void were created air and water.
Raising creation, He dwells as monarch in the citadel of the body.
Lord! In the fire and water [of the body] exists Thy light;
In Thy [original] state of void was lodged [unmanifest] the power of creation.

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Surat Shabda Yoga

Surat Shabda Yoga cosmology depicts the whole of creation (the macrocosm) as being emanated and arranged in a spiritually differentiated hierarchy, often referred to as eggs, regions, or planes. Typically, eight spiritual levels are described above the physical plane, although names and subdivisions within these levels will vary to some extent by mission and Master. (One version of the creation from a Surat Shabda Yoga perspective is depicted at the Sant Ajaib Singh Ji Memorial Site in "The Grand Scheme of All Creation".) All planes below the purely spiritual regions are subject to cycles of creation and dissolution (pralya) or grand dissolution (maha pralya).

The constitution of the individual (the microcosm) is an exact replica of the macrocosm. Consequently, the microcosm consists of a number of bodies, each one suited to interact with its corresponding plane or region in the macrocosm. These bodies developed over the yugas through involution (emanating from higher planes to lower planes) and evolution (returning from lower planes to higher planes), including by karma and reincarnation in various states of consciousness.

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Old 29-Apr-2007
Re: Creation Vs Evolution

You did good job. But religion stands on ladder of FAITH and science is all about LOGIC.
1. If Hanuman can fly with half of mountain then Virgin Mary can born a child.
2. But Baba Nanak compiled well ...LAKH AGASA AGAS-LAKH PATALAN PATAL

Just imagine - a simple man...a traveler..a great trekker..found this without any hubble telescope.

Evolution is always under scanner and will be ...as man has landed on moon and his eyes has gone deep in sky BUT we still do not know what SPARROW sings. What trees wants to say.

Creation is always FAITH based...and this is why some changes are there but what shocks me is BIBLICAL VERSE about presence of SOUND.

Old 29-Apr-2007
Re: Creation Vs Evolution

Originally Posted by rockaclimba View Post
You did good job. But religion stands on ladder of FAITH and science is all about LOGIC.
1. If Hanuman can fly with half of mountain then Virgin Mary can born a child.
2. But Baba Nanak compiled well ...LAKH AGASA AGAS-LAKH PATALAN PATAL

Just imagine - a simple man...a traveler..a great trekker..found this without any hubble telescope.

Evolution is always under scanner and will be ...as man has landed on moon and his eyes has gone deep in sky BUT we still do not know what SPARROW sings. What trees wants to say.

Creation is always FAITH based...and this is why some changes are there but what shocks me is BIBLICAL VERSE about presence of SOUND.
thanks for da post bro

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