Sikhs and our identity

[gurki]

I went to the sikh parade in new york and was not happy with the outcome. Most people had cut their beards or their hair. I saw many people that cut their hair and were wearing gold khandas and even had khanda tattoos.

What I am trying to saw all the people that have cut their hair are only sikh by name. Wearing gold khanda chains, doing bhangra, and tatoos don't make you a sikh.

What makes you a sikh is following the gurus advice. A Sikh is a teacher of the gurus. Our gurus gave their lives to defend our identity. These people cut their head or shave like they don't give a shit.

Just because more than half of the world shaves and cuts his or her hair doesn't give you any reason to cut your hair.

Also, all the fucking people that do cut their hair or shave influence other sikh children to do it.
These days white people are more of a sikh then indians


All these singers Jazzy B, Jassi Sidhu, Sikhshinder shinda, and many more have cut their hair or shaved their beard. Then they go out and start saying that im a sikh jatt. These people are bullshit. They are not any less than hindus or muslims. Cutting your hair and still wearing a pagg is humiliating the sikh religion.

If you are a sikh, YOU HAVE TO BE PROUD TO BE A SIKH. BEING A SIKH IS NOT A SMALL THING.

 

[deadline]

I went to the sikh parade in new york and was not happy with the outcome. Most people had cut their beards or their hair. I saw many people that cut their hair and were wearing gold khandas and even had khanda tattoos.

What I am trying to saw all the people that have cut their hair are only sikh by name. Wearing gold khanda chains, doing bhangra, and tatoos don't make you a sikh.

What makes you a sikh is following the gurus advice. A Sikh is a teacher of the gurus. Our gurus gave their lives to defend our identity. These people cut their head or shave like they don't give a shit.

Just because more than half of the world shaves and cuts his or her hair doesn't give you any reason to cut your hair.

Also, all the f@$%g people that do cut their hair or shave influence other sikh children to do it.
These days white people are more of a sikh then indians


All these singers Jazzy B, Jassi Sidhu, Sikhshinder shinda, and many more have cut their hair or shaved their beard. Then they go out and start saying that im a sikh jatt. These people are bullshit. They are not any less than hindus or muslims. Cutting your hair and still wearing a pagg is humiliating the sikh religion.

If you are a sikh, YOU HAVE TO BE PROUD TO BE A SIKH. BEING A SIKH IS NOT A SMALL THING.

yup tru.....now days everyone is saying that they are a sikh.....they are but only by name not with wat the guru ji really wanted.....if you look at it seems as if all the shaheedis made by our ancestor have gone in vain.....coz people dont tend 2 care nowadays...its all bout fashion....and wearning khanda doesnt make ju a sikh...i look at this way the people dat do wear khandas and are moneh...they are just showing people look i am a sikh...even though i look a bhaiya or someone from other religion...

yes cutting of hair and wearing pagg shows dat ju dnt care....

JUST REMEMBER DAT GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MADE THE KHALSA/SINGH SO HE COULD BE IDENTIFIED IN MILLIONS OF PEOPLE....but now the same khalsa/singh/sher....wants to be just lyk sheep around him.......

 

[gurki]

All the sikhs that cut their hair should listen to the song sardari in the new immortal productions album panj. It shows the importance of kesh and that people who think they look like heros after cutting their hair are really zero.

 

[SHauKeeN GaBRu]

i agree with u all the way...
M a Proud Sikh with uncut hair and beard...


but one request to u pls mind ur language...avoid using foul language...

 

[reshmi_mutiyar]

gurki ji, a very nice point you tried to make there, respect all that, but as shaukeen gabru ji said , yes stay calm dear,,, guru puttar te thande subah de hunde aa

 

[jattpunjabi]

nice post man

 

[Ramta]

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gurki,

The codes of conduct like the five K's, were supposed to be for the Khalsa-Panthi's to follow. There isn't really any compulsion on a Sikh(non-amritdhari) to follow the doctrine of the five K's. At least not to follow one or two K's and forget the rest.

Hairs don't make a Sikh, and Sikhism by its very definition was meant to be progressive. Infact, the strength of the Sikhs has been their ability, atleast within India, to move ahead of the established traditions and adopt more progressive ideas.

I believe that Granthis are just another form of Brahminism. Sikhism was meant to be an antithesis of orthodoxy, and somehow along the way it fell into the same trap of dogmatism. I am also amazed by the intolerant and orthodox 'talibanised' ways of some of the Sikhs, most of them living in countries like Canada and UK, Sikhs who have hardly understood the concept of Sikhism.

Also, I have no turban, and I cut my hair a long time back. I believe in the spiritual and the meditative aspects of Sikhism.

What Guru Gobind Singh meant for us is to understand the Shri Guru-Granth by naming it the Guru in perpetuity; but then he would not have expected the sikhs to make a "Chatar" over it and wave a fan over it to keep the flies away!!

As individuals who evolute, we need to move away from the half baked truths being taught by the Granthis and get rid of those dogma's therin.

"kabeer preeti ik siau keey aan dubhidhaa jaai;
bhaavey laambe kes karu bhaavey gharari mundaai"
(Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart.
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.)
-- KABIR Source: Adi Granth, p. 1365

Maintaining unshorn hair has been a part of Indian culture sine the vedic times.
Mostly it was associated with wisdom.

Hair is a symbol of 'learning'(Brahmana), Kirpan is the mark of a 'warrior'(Kshatriya) and Kada symbolises servility(Shudra).

A sikh is supposed to be Brahmana, Kshatriya and a Shudra all in one. That's what it is.
The rest is poetry.


Thanks

Critiques to my post are all wellcome but please provide references from the Gurbani to validate the claims you will make.
The validity of the claims you make is something you must provide and not leave it to the reader to go search for the validity of your claims.

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[gurki]

A true sikh follows the 5 ks. Believing in the religion doesn't make you a sikh. A hindu wearing a kara is not a sikh.

AND JUST BECAUSE YOU CUT YOUR HAIR DOESN"T MEAN YOU GO ON TALKING CRAP AND TELLING PEOPLE THAT CUTTING YOUR HAIR IS OK AND ITS ONLY THE THOUGHT THAT COUNTS.

bULLE sHAH YOUR BAKWASS.

bULLESHAH THATS U

 

[Ramta]

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A true sikh follows the 5 ks. Believing in the religion doesn't make you a sikh. A hindu wearing a kara is not a sikh.

AND JUST BECAUSE YOU CUT YOUR HAIR DOESN"T MEAN YOU GO ON TALKING CRAP AND TELLING PEOPLE THAT CUTTING YOUR HAIR IS OK AND ITS ONLY THE THOUGHT THAT COUNTS.

bULLE sHAH YOUR BAKWASS.

bULLESHAH THATS U

What Nanak said, Namdev and Kabir also said. What the ten Guru's said, Tusidas also said.
The Sikh faith as we understand today did not always exist but the principles of Sikhi as a spiritual science
had existed before Nanak. The existence or the History of Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh or the institutions
they founded is not necessary for those principles to work.

When we get to this conceptual level, we can see that communal identity in Hindu-Sikh tradition
is a superficial reality, relatively acceptable and inevitable in the temporal world, but unreal
from the angle of the timeless and colourless Self.

That, which Nanak preached of, is one supreme primordial reality which is substratum of everything.
The Self, the objectless self-contained consciousness.
That "Self" has no separate identity, neither individual nor communal.

If the environment is a Sikh, every Hindu is a sehajdhari Sikh. If it is Hindu, every Sikh is a keshdhari Hindu.
Following the five does not your 'True Sikh' make.

But if this is what you want to continue to preach please provide references from the Gurbani
to validate your claim, not bedtime stories you heard from your parents.

Guru Gobind Singh never forced his new discipline on all Sikhs. Among his most devoted followers
were Bhai Nand Lal, Bhai Ghanaiya, Bhai Kirpa Ram, Bhai Lakhan Rai, Bhai Manua Bairagi, and
Bhai Hans Raj Bajpayee. Their names are mentioned with respect in Sikh annals. They maintained
their identity and position in the Panth as sahaj-dhari Sikhs. In A History of the Sikh People,
Gopal Singh writes: 'Thus a distinction was permitted to remain between a Sikh (disciple)
and a baptized Singh, and this is how till lately a large body of Sikhs, called sahaj-dharis,
though outwardly not conforming to the symbols of the Khalsa, yet accepted the spiritual
and social code of the Gurus and remained an inalienable and worthwhile part of the Panth.'

The Sikh Rahit Maryada, drawn up by the S.G.P.C. in 1945 after wide consultations, defines
a Sikh to be a person whose faith is in one God, the ten Gurus and their teachings and
the Adi Granth. It is thus clear that sahaj-dharis are not excluded. Bhai Ardaman Singh
in his article One Guru - One Movement writes, 'Sikhs as a whole are also known as the Panth.
The Panth includes all sorts of Sikhs whether perfect or imperfect, whether still novice or fully
responsible, whether sahaj-dhari or of any other samprada. Anyone who believes in the Guru
and gurbani [Guru's writings] and has faith in no one else, cannot be denied to be a Sikh,
and therefore, is a member of the Panth.'

Thanks

Postscript : If the saadh sangat agrees, I request everybody that we should limit our
discussion to Shri Guru Granthji. After all there is a reason why Guru Gobind Singh
directed all the Sikhs to consider Shri Guru Granthji as the ultimate Guru.

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[J@tti]

A true sikh follows the 5 ks. Believing in the religion doesn't make you a sikh. A hindu wearing a kara is not a sikh.

AND JUST BECAUSE YOU CUT YOUR HAIR DOESN"T MEAN YOU GO ON TALKING CRAP AND TELLING PEOPLE THAT CUTTING YOUR HAIR IS OK AND ITS ONLY THE THOUGHT THAT COUNTS.

bULLE sHAH YOUR BAKWASS.

bULLESHAH THATS U

According to you, since I cut my hair, I am not a Sikh. So what the hell am I

 

[MAVERICK]

According to you, since I cut my hair, I am not a Sikh. So what the hell am I

well do i need to tell u that...
u r the original :s

 

[jattpunjabi]

for bulleshas post read
https://www.unp.me/f15/why-do-sikhs-keep-hair-15345/index5.html#post216764

 

[jattpunjabi]

main v vaal katte hai,meat v khanda, daru v peenda.......ki main sikh haan??????? je haiga taan dasam patshah de aakhe mutabik vaal kyu nai rakhda????.......Guru Gobind Singh Ji ne taan sikhan layi vaal rakhne zaroori kite c......unha akia c mere sikhan de vaal rakhe honge........ki fer main Guru Gobind Singh Ji da sikh nai isda matbal?????? je nai haiga taan ki aa fer???????? shied dhobi da kutta .........

 

[jattpunjabi]

jadon v main aa padhda haan taan mainu lagda hai ke main sikh nai


ਕਛਕੜਾਕਿਰਪਾਨਕੰਘਾਕੇਸਕੀਇਹਪੰਜਕਕਾਰੀਰਹਿਤਧਾਰੇਸਿਖਸੋਈ
“Kachh (Special designed undergarment), Kara (iron bangle), Kirpaan (strapped sword), Kangha (wooden comb) & Kes (uncut hair) – A person who wears all these Five Kakaars (Articles of Faith) should be considered a Sikh.”


Guru Gobind Singh Ji said

Guru Gobind Singh is quoted as saying :
"Kangha dono vakt kar, paag chune kar bandhai." Translation:
"Comb your hair twice a day and tie your turban carefully, turn by turn.

 

[Ramta]

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jattpunjabi,

Guru Gobind singh never said that.

Thanks

 

[jattpunjabi]

BS there r two lines, one is fron rehatnama nd one is said by Guru Gobind Singh Ji.....am talking bout 2nd line "kangha dono vakat kar pagh chne kar bandhai"

thanks

 

[SHauKeeN GaBRu]

According to you, since I cut my hair, I am not a Sikh. So what the hell am I

kuriye...asli Sikh ohi ne jinna ne Amrit Chhakeya....assi te sirf naam de hi Sikh haan

 

[Dhillon]

kuriye...asli Sikh ohi ne jinna ne Amrit Chhakeya....assi te sirf naam de hi Sikh haan

if thats true then i don't know many sikhs,

 

[jattpunjabi]

if thats true then i don't know many sikhs,

the question is not about number of sikhs....question is regarding sikh n identity....like others I found this in my mail box.....hehehe......nai yaar.....I read it smwhere nd saved on my disc......reado nd tello

Who Is A Sikh?​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What does it take to become a Sikh? If my parents are Sikhs, does that make me a Sikh? If I have unsheathed hair and wear a turban, does that make me a Sikh? If I go to Gurdwara every week, does that make me a Sikh? So what does it take to become a Sikh?


Guru Nanak Dev Ji said this many times, and it was also repeated by all of the following Gurus. Well that was easy. There’s your answer: Pray, Share, and live an honest life. So is anybody who does these three things a Sikh? These are the basic principles of Sikhism, but there is much more required to become a Sikh. Along with these things, a Sikh must be pure of the five thieves, Kam (Lust), Krodh (Anger), Lobh (Greed), Moh (Attachment), Ahankar (Ego).
Guru Gobind Singh Ji said every Sikh must take amrit. So therefore everybody who takes amrit is now automatically a Sikh. In everyday when we see someone who has taken amrit we do assume that they are Sikhs. Usually they are, but we must realize there is more to becoming a Sikh than doing path and wearing the five K’s. One can take amrit, but still not be in control of the five temptations listed above. This is very possible, just look at the people around you. Is their anyone you know who has taken amrit, but is also greedy or lustful or attached to something or is angry or has a huge ego? You probably know some one who is, and do you refer to them as a Sikh? Guru Gobind Singh Ji did not say, If you take amrit you will become a Sikh. He said, if you want to become a Sikh you must also take amrit. There is a huge difference in the two. The latter implies there are other things you must also accomplish. So how do you become a Sikh?

Many Sikh scholars state, that in order to be considered a Sikh you must read gurbani and meditate on Nam. Following the general pattern here you can see, that there is going to be a catch. We all know people who read gurbani on a regular basis. We also know some people who do this but also sin on a regular basis. I know people who read gurbani and still cut their hair, people who still drink, people who still discriminate.
Do these people understand what they are reading? There is a difference in reading gurbani and studying gurbani. You have to be able to understand the meaning behind what is said. Yet, even after that, you must implement what you have learned in every decision you make. You must use what you have learned from the teachings of Gurbani on a daily basis. This will also help show people who Sikh’s truly are. Now we are close to discovering who a Sikh is.
The main problem to answering this question is that the Sikh society has become too loose. We have lost the strictness that many other religions still retain. So just because someone calls themselves a Sikh, do not believe them. I apologize if I being too frank, actually I will not apologize. This is an example of the leniency we must shed. We should not stop ourselves from informing our society just because we may insult someone whom we know personally. We have made too many levels of Sikhism: we have the Puran Sikhs, the Amritdhari Sikhs, the Gursikhs, and Sahjdhari Sikhs. I believe you are either a) Not a Sikh, b) a Sahjdhari Sikh, or c) a Sikh. Usually people consider themselves Sahjdhari Sikhs. Most of the time the people who refer to themselves as this, are not even Sahjdhari Sikhs. If you know something you are doing is said to be wrong in gurbani, but yet you continue doing it by making an excuse, then you are not a even a Sahjdhari Sikh. It is not wise to question whether what the guru’s said or did is right or wrong. The most common way people try to find a loophole around this is by misinterpreting a quote from gurbani. They will either take a quote out of context or they will give an incorrect translation because they do not know gurmukhi, the language gurbani is written in. This way they can indulge themselves in whatever unsikh practice they wish to partake in without any guilt. There are many issues in Sikhism today such as "Meat or Vegetarian" or "Photos of Guru’s or Not" or "Sit on Chair’s in Gurdwara or on the floor" or "Alcohol or Sobriety."
As a Sikh the answers to these questions lay in gurbani. The Guru Granth Sahib is very similar to the US Constitution in that they are very general. The answers to these questions are not specifically stated because the questions are endless. Therefore the Guru Granth Sahib gives general laws that can be used to answer any question. When people want to do something that is wrong they usually say "Show me in gurbani where it says I can not…." They must realize the answer will not be stated straightforward, but instead it will be found by deeper understanding of gurbani. Remember this, even if you some how manage to convince yourself it is correct, God still knows that you are sinning. A Sahjdhari Sikh is someone who as they learn what they are doing is against the rules of sikhi, immediately stops and try to become closer to god and prepare themselves to take amrit. Only after you have taken amrit and achieved a level of knowledge about Sikhism and gurbani are you prepared to correctly represent this religion? Here then is the answer a Sikh is person who has taken amrit and actually lives his life according to the teachings of gurbani.

What Next?​

If you are not prepared to become a Sikh than stop calling yourself a Sikh. It is truly better to not be a Sikh rather than a false Sikh. "But how is this, is Sikhism not the ultimate religion, will god not penalize me more if I do not call myself a Sikh?" NO, this is where Sikhism differs from every other religion. Every religion states we are all created equally, but at the proverbial "Judgement Day" god will only except you if you are part of this religion. In Sikhism we believe god created everyone equally, and no strings-attached. Yes it is possible to live during your physical existence as a member of some other religion or even no organized religion at all and still become one with God. Anybody can realize God by Truly loving him, but to become a Sikh you not only has to love God, you will also have to follow other rules laid down by our Gurus. God does not discriminate. Only God can judge whether what we do is right or wrong. Therefore we can not judge someone else’s beliefs or religion or actions due to the fact that we are not God.

​

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[gurinder_gidda]

I went to the sikh parade in new york and was not happy with the outcome. Most people had cut their beards or their hair. I saw many people that cut their hair and were wearing gold khandas and even had khanda tattoos.

What I am trying to saw all the people that have cut their hair are only sikh by name. Wearing gold khanda chains, doing bhangra, and tatoos don't make you a sikh.

What makes you a sikh is following the gurus advice. A Sikh is a teacher of the gurus. Our gurus gave their lives to defend our identity. These people cut their head or shave like they don't give a shit.

Just because more than half of the world shaves and cuts his or her hair doesn't give you any reason to cut your hair.

Also, all the fucking people that do cut their hair or shave influence other sikh children to do it.
These days white people are more of a sikh then indians


All these singers Jazzy B, Jassi Sidhu, Sikhshinder shinda, and many more have cut their hair or shaved their beard. Then they go out and start saying that im a sikh jatt. These people are bullshit. They are not any less than hindus or muslims. Cutting your hair and still wearing a pagg is humiliating the sikh religion.

If you are a sikh, YOU HAVE TO BE PROUD TO BE A SIKH. BEING A SIKH IS NOT A SMALL THING.

Main bilkul agree hain tuhadi gallan to. kyunki e sade te depend karda ke asi apne bal rakhiye ya kataiye. Asi hi style maran lai ya apne nu navi looks den lai apni bal kata dinde hain. Asi ek bar vaste v e nahi sochde ke chote shahibzadeyan ne ena ballan karke hi shahidiyan paiyan c te j o bal katan ya Islam Kabul karan lai man jande te shayad jiveet rende per nahi jo shikheya ona nu bachpan to mili c o us ute kayam rahe dole nahi per aj kal di navi pidi e nahi sochdi o te bus nave-nave styailan ute maar jande ne te esi lai apne bal kata linde ne te fir puchde firde ne ke ki asi SIKH nahi hain?

E ona nu aap labna chahida hai ke sachai ki hai te ki dokha means O apne culture te Histroy nu janan te ohna nu ape pata lag javega ke SIKH kida de hunde ne. GURU GOBIND JI ne SIKH ona nu nahi keha jenane AMRIT da bata chakeya ona nu keha jo onadi banai REHAT MARYADA nu v kayam rakhde ne.

Tahin te onane keha hai "REHAT PYAARI MUJHKU SIKH PYAARA NAHIN"