Guru maneyo Granth
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Singh-a-lion
Prime VIP
Mere hisaab naal je dasam pita de 52 hukamname padiye ohde vicho 10th hukam aa ke SATGUR GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI nu manna.
Gal almost ethe clear ho jandi ,, i guess
Gal almost ethe clear ho jandi ,, i guess
Royal Singh
Prime VIP
Eh navi gal sunni ajj
Singh-a-lion
Prime VIP
The word Granth is both singular and plural in Punjabi, especially in a sentence like we have under discussion.
Few more noteworhty things:
1.) Guruji does not indicate "aad granth". He just says "granth". It appears to be a generic reference. Now the question is which Sikh granths were available to Guruji?
There were atleast two granths that were available in bound form.
a) Aad Granth
b) Sarbloh Granth
2) Sarbhloh Granth was according to Nihang tradition created in the last days of Guruji at Nanded. The purpose of this Granth ,according to this traditon, was to inspire "Beer Ras" (battle humor) . The most popular Sikh Shabad "Khalsa Akal Purakh Ki Fauj" comes from this Granth. Now the critics of Sri Dasam Granth also dispute this Granth but they do not hesitate to cherry pick inspirational material from it like the forgoing shabad.
Anybody who has read even a few pages from Sarbloh Granth will testify that it is a work of unparalled literary and musical genius. There is no reason to beleive that the "Granth" in "Guru Manyo Granth" does not include this sacred writing of
Guruji. This is more plausible also since there were atleast 2 Granths available in bound form, the distinction between "aad granth" and "sarbhoh granth" was was available to Guruji and his contemporaries but they choose not to make it in Prahlad Singh's Rehitnama. This lack of obvious distniction between two works and the use of the generic term "granth" could be indeed discreet.
3) Dasam Granth was scattered in Ghaggar. During last days of Guruji, his effort was totally focussed on finding, mentoring and guiding Sikh warriors and ,and according to Nihang tradition, which I personally respect very much , to prepare Sarbloh
Granth which was required for both liturgical and inspirational needs of Nihang bands. The most pressing preoccupation of Guruji in his last days was to raise a formidable army to take Sarhind. Maybe he planned to recreate Dasam Granth at a later time when he was freed from military tasks but destiny cut his earthly journey short. But that does not mean that which was once lost and recovered by other inspired Sikhs was not his "shabad".
4) Lastly Guruji clearly removes all confusion when he says," Guru Granth ko Manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milna chahe khoj sabad men leh."
Now the definition of "Shabad" varies from esoteric to exoteric in Gurbani. At abstract level it is the pure onkar sound which is celebrated as "Naad" at various places as in " Naam Jin Ke Man Vasya Vaajay Shabad Ghanaray". This subtle "shabad" does not require any granth because it is available to all , all the time. But lets not get too esoteric here. Lets discuss the word "shabad" in most general Sikh parlance.
When you say that only "aad granth" is Guru's shabad, are you in a way saying that 3 of the 5 most important banis of Sikhism are not "shabad" of Guru? If that is the case then Sikhs have been misled all along these 3 centuries that have passed. I don't this it can be the case.
Obviously if Bhai Prahlad's Rehitnama is authentic, then non-aad granth writings of Guruji are implied in the definition of "Shabad-Guru". ALL THE NON-AAD GRANTH BANIS ARE ALSO SHABAD-GURU. If some critics might claim that the Rehitnama is not authentic (as they obviously try to do when history does not justify their claims), then they cannot prove that Guruji passed Guru Gaddi even to "aad granth".Why ? Because this crucial Rehitnama is the source of all the legend, tradition and hearsay that reinforces that Guruji passed on Guru Gaddi to his writings. Without this Rehitnama there is NO textual evidence to support the conventional Sikh view that after Guruji passed on Guruship to his sacred writings, including "Aad Granth".
I see the attempt on this board to dissect Bhai Prahlad's Rehitnama and question its authenticity (atleast partially). If we start doing this , it is not only going dismantle the beliefs of the opposite camp but seriously impair some of our own too. We can't have it both ways as Raniji's post suggested. We cannot cherry pick from a historical text just on the basis of subjective inferences and speculations just as she did.
There is no reason, credible to a serious student of Sikhism , to believe that Guruji just authored first two lines and rest are the work of a malicious or well-intenioned interpolater. You have to provide a better justification than that.
All "shabad" that flowed from Guru's pen or mouth is Shabad-Guru...
Few more noteworhty things:
1.) Guruji does not indicate "aad granth". He just says "granth". It appears to be a generic reference. Now the question is which Sikh granths were available to Guruji?
There were atleast two granths that were available in bound form.
a) Aad Granth
b) Sarbloh Granth
2) Sarbhloh Granth was according to Nihang tradition created in the last days of Guruji at Nanded. The purpose of this Granth ,according to this traditon, was to inspire "Beer Ras" (battle humor) . The most popular Sikh Shabad "Khalsa Akal Purakh Ki Fauj" comes from this Granth. Now the critics of Sri Dasam Granth also dispute this Granth but they do not hesitate to cherry pick inspirational material from it like the forgoing shabad.
Anybody who has read even a few pages from Sarbloh Granth will testify that it is a work of unparalled literary and musical genius. There is no reason to beleive that the "Granth" in "Guru Manyo Granth" does not include this sacred writing of
Guruji. This is more plausible also since there were atleast 2 Granths available in bound form, the distinction between "aad granth" and "sarbhoh granth" was was available to Guruji and his contemporaries but they choose not to make it in Prahlad Singh's Rehitnama. This lack of obvious distniction between two works and the use of the generic term "granth" could be indeed discreet.
3) Dasam Granth was scattered in Ghaggar. During last days of Guruji, his effort was totally focussed on finding, mentoring and guiding Sikh warriors and ,and according to Nihang tradition, which I personally respect very much , to prepare Sarbloh
Granth which was required for both liturgical and inspirational needs of Nihang bands. The most pressing preoccupation of Guruji in his last days was to raise a formidable army to take Sarhind. Maybe he planned to recreate Dasam Granth at a later time when he was freed from military tasks but destiny cut his earthly journey short. But that does not mean that which was once lost and recovered by other inspired Sikhs was not his "shabad".
4) Lastly Guruji clearly removes all confusion when he says," Guru Granth ko Manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milna chahe khoj sabad men leh."
Now the definition of "Shabad" varies from esoteric to exoteric in Gurbani. At abstract level it is the pure onkar sound which is celebrated as "Naad" at various places as in " Naam Jin Ke Man Vasya Vaajay Shabad Ghanaray". This subtle "shabad" does not require any granth because it is available to all , all the time. But lets not get too esoteric here. Lets discuss the word "shabad" in most general Sikh parlance.
When you say that only "aad granth" is Guru's shabad, are you in a way saying that 3 of the 5 most important banis of Sikhism are not "shabad" of Guru? If that is the case then Sikhs have been misled all along these 3 centuries that have passed. I don't this it can be the case.
Obviously if Bhai Prahlad's Rehitnama is authentic, then non-aad granth writings of Guruji are implied in the definition of "Shabad-Guru". ALL THE NON-AAD GRANTH BANIS ARE ALSO SHABAD-GURU. If some critics might claim that the Rehitnama is not authentic (as they obviously try to do when history does not justify their claims), then they cannot prove that Guruji passed Guru Gaddi even to "aad granth".Why ? Because this crucial Rehitnama is the source of all the legend, tradition and hearsay that reinforces that Guruji passed on Guru Gaddi to his writings. Without this Rehitnama there is NO textual evidence to support the conventional Sikh view that after Guruji passed on Guruship to his sacred writings, including "Aad Granth".
I see the attempt on this board to dissect Bhai Prahlad's Rehitnama and question its authenticity (atleast partially). If we start doing this , it is not only going dismantle the beliefs of the opposite camp but seriously impair some of our own too. We can't have it both ways as Raniji's post suggested. We cannot cherry pick from a historical text just on the basis of subjective inferences and speculations just as she did.
There is no reason, credible to a serious student of Sikhism , to believe that Guruji just authored first two lines and rest are the work of a malicious or well-intenioned interpolater. You have to provide a better justification than that.
All "shabad" that flowed from Guru's pen or mouth is Shabad-Guru...
genuine point..
Singh-a-lion
Prime VIP
From vich we learn something is our teacher. It can b bad or good
Now internet is kind of teacher u can use it aa good or bad
Hope u got my point.
Religious teacher :-
" Guru Granth ko Manyo pargat Guran ki deh Jo Prabhu ko milna chahe khoj sabad men leh."
Deep meaning jehde vich sare gura di bani darj hove.
pher taan guru granth sahib ji hoye. ohna vich sare guru sahiban di bani darj hai.
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