God - discussion

[e1emental]

Hi all,
I have been using unp for music and poetry for some time but not often. I saw this thread and thought maybe you guys could answer some questions.
I know there are no religious masters here, although a lot of you might have good knowleedge from elders.

The thing is that being a man of science, I don't believe in supernatural. I believe God is theory created by some smart humans to restrict the soceity and later with changes in interpretation of this theory, led to its division as we know it today.
Or 'God(s)' were just powerful humans with some special knowledge. If a person from, say, 1200 a.d. saw a person flying in a plane today with his guns and gadgets, without the knowledge how all of it came about, wouldn't the ancient person call the modern guy a GOD?

I'm not very regular, but I'll try to reply asap.

 

[e1emental]

Btw, I find it really amusing that you have combined Religion and Politics into one forum. I read it as 'All religion is politics'.

 

[Saini Sa'aB]

 

[pps309]

There are 2 type of systems in this world: Man-made or Scientific systems, and Natural Systems (self-existent).
Why there are flaws/drawbacks in man made sytems, but Natural systems are flawless?
Man created scientific systems (Airplane), who created natural systems (functioning of living organism, biospheres, ecological balance, gravity in the space which binds planets in their orbit)?

Man-made systems have a scalability limit (top speed, top height achieved etc), why there is no limit of natural systems like universe?

Why science have to derive terms like probability or infinity? Isn't these terms contradicting the science itself?

One of those smart people, world calls him Nanak, described it 500 years ago.
"Ik noor te sab jag upaya, kudrat ke sab bande".
It was the ray of light (source of energy) from whom the whole world is created. Then all the living beings came into existence naturally.

Going further: "Jo karta sirthi ko saaje, aape jaane soi"
The creator who created this universe knows himself the whole truth.

But we don't know because "Pita ka janam ki jaane putt"
A son doesn't know about the origin or birth of creator.

Our talks and discussions are limited to the reach of our brain. Even in the field of science some people have more reach then others. Same thing exists here. It is our reach to understand the perfect creation of the creator that defines the GOD for us. GOD is different for different people according to their knowledge and reach.

Very likely, more than 95% of us are nowhere close to the starting point of path which reaches the creator because we don't (try to) understand his creation.

Keep trying man. Even I am novice in this. I am scared that it might take me to a different world and I will lose all my worldly treasures, which anyhow all of us will loose one day .

I tries to learn from teachings of those smart people because they are smarter then me and their motive was well-being of all (Sarbat da bhalla).

 

[J@tti]

For those who have faith, God is everything... for those who don't, God is fiction. I feel His presence so I have never had to rationalize His existence.

 

[Mahaj]

believing in god is a purely personnel desicn ...everyone describes god according to his sense .....if u really don't want to believe in god [ame="http://rapidshare.com/files/53646870/Richard_Dawkins_-_The_God_Delusion.pdf"]http://rapidshare.com/files/53646870...d_Delusion.pdf
read this one ......god delusion ..but read it at your own risk .....
i dont think that people at 1200 AD wld believe like that coz god's definition by nanak ji is unmatchable.....more over god is not above ur head in the sky he is within you ....anteraatma
nanak beautifully describes everything but most of the "tikka kaar" (translators) ruined his teachings and adulterated them
if you really want to believe in proved god read this respectful book
https://www.unp.me/f15/shri-guru-granth-sahib-in-pdf-37750/
science is incomplete and dynamic ..its changing ........homeopathy is denied by science still people are getting better......acupuncture is denied ....ppl are getting cured ....after every 10 years science denies itself ..!!

 

[e1emental]

believing in god is a purely personnel desicn ...everyone describes god according to his sense .....if u really don't want to believe in god http://rapidshare.com/files/53646870...d_Delusion.pdf
read this one ......god delusion ..but read it at your own risk .....
i dont think that people at 1200 AD wld believe like that coz god's definition by nanak ji is unmatchable.....more over god is not above ur head in the sky he is within you ....anteraatma
nanak beautifully describes everything but most of the "tikka kaar" (translators) ruined his teachings and adulterated them
if you really want to believe in proved god read this respectful book
https://www.unp.me/f15/shri-guru-granth-sahib-in-pdf-37750/
science is incomplete and dynamic ..its changing ........homeopathy is denied by science still people are getting better......acupuncture is denied ....ppl are getting cured ....after every 10 years science denies itself ..!!

I have God delusion on my reading list already. Thank you for the link, but ill get a paperback.
And I will surely try to read the Granth one day. I feel I'm not ready yet. I am sure it is beautiful from what I have read and learned from others.

Going back to my point, there is this instance during 2nd world war. When planes threw food from planes for the troops, some of it went to a tribe on the island. When the soldiers came in contact with the tribe, they saw that tribal people had made a figure of a plane had started praying to it because it provided food for them. I cant get proper source for this but if I do I'll share it.

There are 2 type of systems in this world: Man-made or Scientific systems, and Natural Systems (self-existent).
Why there are flaws/drawbacks in man made sytems, but Natural systems are flawless?
Man created scientific systems (Airplane), who created natural systems (functioning of living organism, biospheres, ecological balance, gravity in the space which binds planets in their orbit)?

Man-made systems have a scalability limit (top speed, top height achieved etc), why there is no limit of natural systems like universe?

Why science have to derive terms like probability or infinity? Isn't these terms contradicting the science itself?

One of those smart people, world calls him Nanak, described it 500 years ago.
"Ik noor te sab jag upaya, kudrat ke sab bande".

Well science is very young right now. But the way its growing we will have lot more answers in the coming years. Earth is 4 billion years old and evolution has shaped nature to almost perfection, we will need time, only not as much because humans are more efficient.
Btw, here is an example of imperfection of nature [ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdm5he_richard-dawkins-demonstrates-laryng_tech/"]Dailymotion - Richard Dawkins Demonstrates Laryngeal Nerve of the Giraffe - a Tech & Science video@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/video@@AMEPARAM@@video

"Ik noor te sab jag upaya, kudrat ke sab bande". That is exactly what evolution says, it all started with single cell organisms. And everyday we are finding the missing links in evolution which just strengthens it.

I don't know what to say, I have been brought up in religion and I cannot give it up easily because none of them answers all the questions. But science has answered more questions in last 2-3 centuries than religion has in more than 20 centuries.

 

[e1emental]

And really sorry about such a late reply. I have just been too busy. Sorry again

 

[Mahaj]

for sum ppl religion is worshiping the stone or sumthing they are afraid of like snake or sumthing that really helped them like aeroplane or rain
for sum ppl religion is sex
for sumppl religion is worship of bad (wicca)
for sum ppl relgion is knowledge of self ...
nanak again beautifully describes
ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਸਭਿ ਬੰਧਨਾ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ॥
Rituals and religions are all just entanglements; bad and good are bound up with them.
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ਕਉਨੁ ਕਰਮ ਬਿਦਿਆ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੀ ਧਰਮੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਕਰਈ ॥
Which actions, what sort of knowledge, and what religion - what Dharma should one practice?
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ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਪਰਵਿਰਤਿ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ Some make a big show of their worldly influence.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜਾ ਬਿਸਥਾਰਾ ॥ Some make a big show of devotional worship.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਨਿਵਲ ਭੁਇਅੰਗਮ ਸਾਧੇ ॥ Some practice inner cleansing techniques, and control the breath through Kundalini Yoga.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥੧॥ I am meek; I worship and adore the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||
ਤੇਰਾ ਭਰੋਸਾ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥ I place my faith in You alone, O Beloved Lord.
ਆਨ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਵੇਸਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ I do not know any other way.
science is dynamic and denies itself after few years