Dividing Sikhism From Hinduism

Ramta

Member
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Imperialism thrives on divisions and it sows them even where they do not exist. the British government invited one dr. e. Trumpp, a German indologist and missionary, to look at Sikh scriptures and prove that their theology and cosmology were different from those of the Vedas and the Upanishads. but he found nothing in them to support this view.

Dr E Trumpp found Guru Nanak dev ji a "thorough Hindu," his religion "a pantheism, derived directly from Hindu sources." in fact, the influence of Islam on subsequent Sikhism was, according to him, negative. "it is not improbable that Islam had a great share in working silently these changes, which are directly opposed to the teachings of the gurus," he says.

However, to please his clients, he said that the external marks of the Sikhs separated them from the Hindus and once these were lost, they relapsed into Hinduism. hence, Hinduism was a danger to Sikhism and the external marks must be preserved by the Sikhs at all costs. precisely because there was a fundamental unity, the accidental difference had to be pushed to the utmost and made much of. from then onwards, "Sikhism in danger" became the cry of many British scholar administrators.

Lepel Henry Griffen postulated that Hinduism had always been hostile to Sikhism and even socially the two had been antagonistic. one Max Arthur Macauliffe, a highly placed British administrator, became the loudest spokesman of this thesis. the Sikhs "may go that way," he warned. he felt the imminent danger to the British empire, in that “the Sikhs regarded themselves as Hindus.” so he tutored Sikh theoligans to put words into the gurus mouths and fraudulently allege that this was, "in direct opposition to the teachings of the gurus."

It is a proven fact that Max Arthur Macauliffe put words into the mouth of the gurus and invented prophecies by them which anticipated the advent of the white race to whom the Sikhs would be loyal. ie he decided to insert terms such as Sikhs only bowing before the Granth and nothing else. he described "the pernicious effects of the upbringing of Sikh youths in a Hindu atmosphere." these youths, he claimed, "are ignorant of the Sikh religion and of its prophecies, which are in favour of the English and contract exclusive customs and prejudices to the extent of calling us malechhas or persons of impure desires, and inspire disgust for the customs and habits of Christians."

It was a concerted effort in which the officials, the scholars and the missionaries all joined. the Singh Sabha, the brainchild of professor Leitner, kings college was to become there most lethal weapon in putting into practice their plan to separate the Sikh sect of Hinduism from Hinduism.

In order to separate the Sikhs, they were even made into a sect of Islam. for example,one Thomas Patrick Hughes, who had worked as missionary for twenty years in Peshawar, edited the dictionary of Islam. the work itself is scholarly but, like most European scholarship, it had a colonial inspiration. the third biggest article in this work, after Muhammad and the Quran, is on Sikhism. it devotes one fourth of a page to the Sunnis and, somewhat more justly,seven pages to the Shias, but devotes eleven and a half pages to the Sikhs! probably, the editor himself thought it rather excessive; for he offers an explanation to the orientalists who "may perhaps be surprised to find that Sikhism has been treated as a sect of Islam." indeed, it is surprising to the non-orientalists too. for it must be a strange sect of Islam where the word 'Muhammad' does not occur even once in the writings of its founder, Nanak. but the inclusion of such an article "in the present work seemed to be most desirable." it was a policy matter.

Macauliffe and others provided categories which became the thought equipment of subsequent Sikh intellectuals but the British government did not neglect the quicker administrative and political measures. They developed a special army policy which gave results even in the short run. while they disarmed the nation as whole, they created privileged enclaves of what they called martial races.

The Poorabiya soldiers, many of them Brahmins, played a rebellious role in 1857. so the British sought other elements. the Sikhs were chosen. in 1855, there were only 1500 Sikh soldiers, mostly mazhabis. in 1910, there were 33 thousands out of a total of 174 thousands, this time mostly Jats, just a little less than one fifth of the total army strength. Their very recruitment was calculated to give them a sense of separateness and exclusiveness. Only such Sikhs were recruited who observed the marks of the Khalsa. They were sent to receive baptism according to the rites prescribed by Guru Gobind Singh. Each regiment had its own granthis. The greetings exchanged between the British officers and the Sikh soldiers were 'wahguruji ka khalsa, wahguru ji ki fateh'.

A secret c.i.d memorandum, prepared by D. Patfie, assistant director, criminal intelligence, government of India (1911), says that "every endevour has been made to separate them (Sikh soldiers) from Hinduism ," thanks to these measures, the "Sikhs in the Indian army have been studiously nationalized," Macaulille observed. About the meaning of this "nationalization", we are left in no doubt. Petrie explains that it means that the Sikhs were "encouraged to regard themselves as a totally distinct and separate nation."

No wonder, the British congratulated themselves and held that the " becoming and preservation of Sikhism as a separate religion was largely due to the action of the British officers," as Maccauliffe put it.

Also refer to post #19, Re: Western Writers' thinking about Sikhism and Gurbani
HERE

Thanks

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munda_wakhre_type_da

-- Kem da Gui --
sab bakwaas ae.. koi vehla te jealous banda jinu hor koi kam ni sirf ohi eho j posts likh sakda..


main ban karan lageya bai tenu.. tu fer shuru hogeya.. ainwe dmaaag na khraab kareya kar sada eho j kam karke pela hi bathere dmaag ch nuks paye hoye apne..

thanx
 

Dhillon

Dhillon Sa'aB™
Staff member
here we go again,Bulleshah was banned for sharing what some (few) westren thinkers have to say about sikhism,

what if someone had put these views infront of you in person ? banning is not always an option.

so read the first post carefully.think about it and prepare your response.
 

munda_wakhre_type_da

-- Kem da Gui --
as u say dhillon saab.. pata ki idi post parhke sida dmaaag turda hi nahi.. bai dmaag di sari nassan fula dinda..

neways dnt wry main isdi posts parhe hi nahi karniaaa.. siyapa hi mukao :talli
 

Ramta

Member
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here we go again,Bulleshah was banned for sharing what some (few) westren thinkers have to say about sikhism,
what if someone had put these views infront of you in person ? banning is not always an option.
read the first post carefully.think about it and prepare your response.

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Thank you Mr. Dhillon...

Unlike many other's you never called me Mr. Smarty or some such thing. Name calling is not really mature
and to attack my personal character rather than critiquing my critique is nothing more than a “low blow”.
I take great offense at these clown's who want to teach me that 'Harmandir' means "Har Ik Da Mandir" :roll

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Mr. munda wakhra type,

you seemto be a diehard Sikh (I can see and am not shocked). But rest assured my true intention is
not to stir hostility in our faith, I just want people to read this and walk away not only with answers but
more questions. Remember Sikh means learner: that should be our primary objective.

So please don't get all reved up, remember this is a learning process and if you don't consider life
to be a learning process you are not a sikh.

All things considered I look forward to your response, spare me the suspense!

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The first step in liquidating a people is to erase its memory. Destroy its books, its culture, its history.
Then have somebody write new books, manufacture a new culture, invent a new history. Before long
that nation will begin to forget what it is and what it was... The struggle of man against power
is the struggle of memory against forgetting.

Thanks

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dhana_jatt

~*~ NiMaNa ~*~
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I take great offense at these clown's who want to teach me that 'Harmandir' means "Har Ik Da Mandir" :roll

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pehli gal tameez nal boli... bohati bakwas karan di lod nahi hai..

clown ta tu hai,,, oh v jaleel clown... bezti ktraun da shonk aa jinu...

te dont try to teach us about our religion... je hun sikha bare ja kisi hor religion bare bakwas kiti fer ban kar dena... bohat dimag kha leya tu...
 

dhana_jatt

~*~ NiMaNa ~*~
mainu ta dhillon di v samaj ni aa rahi... sari unp bulle de khilaf ae... koi ehde mathe ni lagna chahunda... tu bai fer isdi side le rea...
ki chakar ae?
je koi khas sanj aa ta dasde bai... sade to ta eh banda ni vekheya janda unp te sidhi gal aa...
 

Ramta

Member
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dhannajatt,

kyon ji, gore master di burai bardaasht naheen hoi ??
Tuhade Guru maharaj hune aa Arur singh ji ya phir oh london-keshdhari
jo tv che vekhiya si...beer bottle in hand shouting 'Raj Kareg..g..g..g..a
Khhhh..aa..ll..sssaa' in his fulsome voive...

It is G U R U.
Not G O R A...mind!

Asin jatt naheen. Ramgarhiye han. Goreyan da ditta patta sanu naheen bhaya.

Dhillon ji vi tuhanu samajh naheen aye tuhanu...
Jat Arur Singh ji da iyo puttar juroor samajh aaooga...

"Cow is the reverved animal for a sizable portion of Punjabs population. If we are in majority it does
not meen the other are nothing. They are human like us and deserve all the consideration.
One yardstick of measuring any culture is to see how they treat their minorities and women...

...If cow slaughter is allowed in Punjab,sikhs wont force hindus to slaugter or eat cows.Poultry farms
are a decent business in Punjab.In the same way beef business can help some farmers
(especially the ones who are comitting suicide)...

...Cow slaughter has NOTHING to do with showing disrespect to hindus.Sikhs dont cut hair
and hindus cut hair.So if hindus open barber shops in Punjab or outside Punjab that doesnt mean
they are trying to insult sikhs.In the same way,non-vegetarian sikhs eating beef wont be showing
disrespect to the minority hindu population in Punjab...

...yours sincerely
Amardeep Singh Gill..."

READ HIM HERE

(Me thinks this Toronto-Giani Amardeep also writes with the
pseudonym Ahmed Sheikh on south asian message boards...)

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Now obviously everyone knows that Sikhs observed the strictest possible abstinence from beef
and under Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule it was punishable by death (who according to these
Neo Sikh's banned it because of political reasons not because he may have genuinely
believed in cow protection. We find in Ugradanti Guru Govind Singh declaring that he
would like to erase the sin of cow slaughter from the whole world but since these Neo Sikhs





don't accept it as Guru Govind Singh's own composition, I am quoting from Bhai Gurda's vars:

Vaar 17 Pauri 21 Vaaran Bhai Gurdasji
counting the slanderers and apostates



Millions are slanderers, millions are apostates and
millions of wicked persons are untrue to their salt.
Unfaithful, ungrateful, thieves, vagabonds and millions
of other infamous persons are there.
Thousands are there who are slayers
of Brahmin, cow, and their own family.


Too bad the RSS and Brahminical liar named Bhai Gurdas is not progressive enough to have realised that beef-eating
is nothing wrong and infact beef is very nutritious like our progressive Neo-London-Toronto-Sikh friends do.
And this RSS man even went so far as to include cow killing as one of the traits of slanderers and apostates...
Ahmad Shah Abdali had done a very progressive thing when he slaughtered cows in Har Mandir
while backward people like Bhai Gurdas were trying to keep Sikhs down under the Brahminical yoke.


Thanks


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dhana_jatt

~*~ NiMaNa ~*~
oh gal sun bulleya... tenu kad keha ki mere guru ne...eve bakwas na mar...

oh tere hone ne,... asi ta guru granth sahib nu guru mande aa...

tere jahe ne... bai tu bohat dimag kha lea janda da,,, hun aape banda banja...
 
here we go again,Bulleshah was banned for sharing what some (few) westren thinkers have to say about sikhism,

what if someone had put these views infront of you in person ? banning is not always an option.


soread the first post carefully.think about it and prepare your response.

mainu taan lagda isne aavde vichaar western thinkers de raahin dasse aa........anyway main jawab deon isda........naale prepare karan di lod nai aa sikhi ate hindu do alag alag dharam han ate ih sari duniya nu pata aa.....bus aa rss wale ate arya samaji.........ki aakhan inha nu hun main
 

J@tti

..Majajan..
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Remember Sikh means learner: that should be our primary objective.


So please don't get all reved up, remember this is a learning process and if you don't consider life
to be a learning process you are not a sikh.

Who are you to tell people if they are Sikh or not. Regardless of what you take Sikhism to be, you are no one to tell anyone if they "qualify" as Sikhs or not. Religion is a very sensitive issue, watch every word you say.. I 'm sure you don't want to hurt people.

And you can get your point across only and only if you show respect to other people's beliefs.
 
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dhannajatt,

kyon ji, gore master di burai bardaasht naheen hoi ??
Tuhade Guru maharaj hune aa Arur singh ji ya phir oh london-keshdhari
jo tv che vekhiya si...beer bottle in hand shouting 'Raj Kareg..g..g..g..a
Khhhh..aa..ll..sssaa' in his fulsome voive...

It is G U R U.
Not G O R A...mind!

Asin jatt naheen. Ramgarhiye han. Goreyan da ditta patta sanu naheen bhaya.

Dhillon ji vi tuhanu samajh naheen aye tuhanu...
Jat Arur Singh ji da iyo puttar juroor samajh aaooga...

"Cow is the reverved animal for a sizable portion of Punjabs population. If we are in majority it does
not meen the other are nothing. They are human like us and deserve all the consideration.
One yardstick of measuring any culture is to see how they treat their minorities and women...

...If cow slaughter is allowed in Punjab,sikhs wont force hindus to slaugter or eat cows.Poultry farms
are a decent business in Punjab.In the same way beef business can help some farmers
(especially the ones who are comitting suicide)...

...Cow slaughter has NOTHING to do with showing disrespect to hindus.Sikhs dont cut hair
and hindus cut hair.So if hindus open barber shops in Punjab or outside Punjab that doesnt mean
they are trying to insult sikhs.In the same way,non-vegetarian sikhs eating beef wont be showing
disrespect to the minority hindu population in Punjab...

...yours sincerely
Amardeep Singh Gill..."

READ HIM HERE

(Me thinks this Toronto-Giani Amardeep also writes with the
pseudonym Ahmed Sheikh on south asian message boards...)

- -
- -

Now obviously everyone knows that Sikhs observed the strictest possible abstinence from beef
and under Maharaja Ranjit Singh's rule it was punishable by death (who according to these
Neo Sikh's banned it because of political reasons not because he may have genuinely
believed in cow protection. We find in Ugradanti Guru Govind Singh declaring that he
would like to erase the sin of cow slaughter from the whole world but since these Neo Sikhs





don't accept it as Guru Govind Singh's own composition, I am quoting from Bhai Gurda's vars:

Vaar 17 Pauri 21 Vaaran Bhai Gurdasji
counting the slanderers and apostates



Millions are slanderers, millions are apostates and
millions of wicked persons are untrue to their salt.
Unfaithful, ungrateful, thieves, vagabonds and millions
of other infamous persons are there.
Thousands are there who are slayers
of Brahmin, cow, and their own family.


Too bad the RSS and Brahminical liar named Bhai Gurdas is not progressive enough to have realised that beef-eating
is nothing wrong and infact beef is very nutritious like our progressive Neo-London-Toronto-Sikh friends do.
And this RSS man even went so far as to include cow killing as one of the traits of slanderers and apostates...
Ahmad Shah Abdali had done a very progressive thing when he slaughtered cows in Har Mandir
while backward people like Bhai Gurdas were trying to keep Sikhs down under the Brahminical yoke.


Thanks



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BS btw aa arur singh ji kaun aa..???? main taan peli vaar name sunia....nd sade guru taan SGGS ji aa.....ih tainu kinne vaar dassia aa par tere palle nai painda....anyway aa amardeep singh gill jisnu tu koi "giani" dass rea hain main taan giani nai laggi......je kise hor forum utte koi gall aakhoo taan ki tu aithe zaroor chepni aa???? aiven hi aavdian falosfiaan ghadi janda tu....sikhi ch meat khaan di manahi aa fer kalle beef di gal kidhron aa gayi???? naale bhai gurdas ji nu rss walian naal kyu mila rea hain......bhai gurdas ji taan giani bande hoe aa......ate aa rss wale kutte di poosh aa.....jinha da kamm aa bus.......rss wale sale na bande na bande di jaat ate tu unha nu bhai gurdas ji naal mila rea......hmmmmmmmmmmm
 

GeNie_iN_a_boTtLe

~~brOwn sUg@~~
yaar menu eh nayi samajh aunda ehdiyaan eniyaa lambiyaan posts padan nu jee kehda karda aa.....:bak :bak :bak

naale menu kade ehdi puri gall samajh hi nayi ayi....:nail yaar copy paste material hunda aa.........so kyn aiven tusi sare tension lainde ho...eh attention bhaalda te tusi saare dende ho.......just ignore........:nail
 

SHauKeeN GaBRu

Chardi Kala
yaar menu eh nayi samajh aunda ehdiyaan eniyaa lambiyaan posts padan nu jee kehda karda aa.....:bak :bak :bak

naale menu kade ehdi puri gall samajh hi nayi ayi....:nail yaar copy paste material hunda aa.........so kyn aiven tusi sare tension lainde ho...eh attention bhaalda te tusi saare dende ho.......just ignore........:nail

hor ki...u r right...kyon matha marna aedaan de bandeyaan naal
 

munda_wakhre_type_da

-- Kem da Gui --
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Thank you Mr. Dhillon...

Unlike many other's you never called me Mr. Smarty or some such thing. Name calling is not really mature
and to attack my personal character rather than critiquing my critique is nothing more than a “low blow”.
I take great offense at these clown's who want to teach me that 'Harmandir' means "Har Ik Da Mandir" :roll

- -
- -

Mr. munda wakhra type,

you seemto be a diehard Sikh (I can see and am not shocked). But rest assured my true intention is
not to stir hostility in our faith, I just want people to read this and walk away not only with answers but
more questions. Remember Sikh means learner: that should be our primary objective.

So please don't get all reved up, remember this is a learning process and if you don't consider life
to be a learning process you are not a sikh.

- -

gal sunle tu te dhillon...

dhilloin gal sun bai

tenu baaada bai bai karke dekhleya.. sanu c gaaa k we r family.. but tu yaaaar sanu kade apna samjhyeaa nahi aaaa jamure nu tu apne dil naaal lai firda...

rahi gal teri bulle.. gal sun

it seasy to find negativitie sin everythin.. koi v vehla banda -ves kise ch v kad sakda.. bt kadan waaala koi banda naaahi hjaleel hi kahaunda...


j dil dita rabb ne taa +ves nu dekjkh.. but je ute wale ne ini akal diti hundi taa shayad aa nobvat naa aundi..

dhillon tu bai aj dillo utar geya...



te bulle rahi gal clown di clown hounga tera budda :kuto


te dhillon tu aj to bai nahi reha.. tu jo karna kar mera.. tu dillo utar geyaaa yaaar
 
bulleshah, ki cow slaughter laya yaar.......main taan hairaan aa ke tu keho jihiaan gallan karda.....main tainu ik gall dasda........hinduism de main granth ate gods kede kede aa ? aa main tainu pela v pushia c......par tainu pata ke main ki gallan karnia islayi tu ajehiaan gallan vall dhyaan nai dinda.......isda ans v main dasda aa.........hinduism ch ramayana, mahabharata, gita, veda, upninheda, kisnkadam, manu diaan pothiaan vagera mukh granth aa na ??????................lai main tainu dasda ke upnished ch beef bare ate meat bare ki likia..........samajh nai aya mere......naale gal sun........chal fer milde aa
HINDUISM VS. MEAT

"When a man finds that his wife is having her period, he should make sure that she does not drink from a metal cup or wear fresh clothes for three days. Nor should a low-caste man or woman be allowed to touch her. When the three days are over and she has taken her bath, he should get her to thresh some rice. 'I want a son with a fair complexion who will master a single Veda and live out his full life span' -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with milk, and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. 'I want a son with a ruddy complexion and tawny eyes who will master two Vedas and live out his full life span' -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with curd, and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. 'I want a son with a dark complexion and reddish eyes who will master three Vedas and live out his full life span' -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice in water and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. 'I want a learned daughter who will live out her full life span' -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with sesame seeds and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a daughter. 'I want a learned and famous son, a captivating orator assisting at councils, who will master all the Vedas and live out his full life span' -- if this is his wish, he should get her to cook that rice with meat and the two of them should eat it mixed with ghee. The couple thus becomes capable of begetting such a son. The meat may be that of a young or a fully grown bull (veal or beef). Then, towards morning, following the same ritual procedure as at the cooking of the pot of milk-rice, he should prepare melted butter and offer portions from the pot of milk-rice in the fire, saying: 'To fire, svaha! To assent, svaha! To the divine Savitr, faithful in procreation, svaha!' After making these offerings, he takes the rest out and, after first eating himself, gives some to his partner. After washing his hands, he fills a pot with water and sprinkles her with it three times, saying: 'Get up, Visvavasu, and leave this place; find yourself some other luscious girl. This wife is here with her husband.' Then he embraces her, as he says: 'I am ama, you are sa -- you are sa, I am ama. I am the Saman chant, you are the Rg verse; I am the sky, you are the earth. Come, let us unite, deposit the seed, to get a son, a male child.' Then he spreads apart her thighs, saying: 'Spread apart, earth and sky.' He slips his penis into her, presses his mouth against hers, and strokes her three times in the direction of her hair, as he says: 'May Visnu prepare your womb, and Tvastr mould the forms; may Prajapati impregnate you, and Dhatr lay the foetus in you.' " -- Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 6:4:13-21.


"Meat is indeed the best kind of food." -- Satapatha Brahmana 11:7:1:3; cf. 12:8:3:12.


LORD INDRA THE BEEF-EATER

"[Sacrificer:] 'They are pressing out the impetuous, exhilarating Soma juices with the pressing-stone, for you, Indra. Drink them! They are cooking bulls for you; you will eat them, generous Indra, when they summon you with food.' " -- Rig Veda 10:28:3.

"[Indra:] 'They have cooked for me fifteen bulls, and twenty, so that I may eat the fat as well. Both sides of my belly are full.' " -- Rig Veda 10:86:14.


BS I gave you reference too. Sikhs are sikhs

Thanks.
 
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