Dera apologises

Ramta · May 28, 2007

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In an effort to break the stalemate in the peace process, Dera Sacha Sauda
apologised to Guru Gobind Singh, though not to Akal Takht.

"In the interest of humanity, we apologise to Guru Gobind Singhji so that
peace returns to Punjab, Haryana and the country," read the Dera statement
released from Sirsa. The statement added, "Our Guruji says it is unimaginable
for him to imitate Guru Gobind Singhji."

The release also said the Dera head, Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh, had already
expressed his regret over the stand-off.

Interestingly, at the Dera headquarters in Sirsa, addressing a congregation of two lakh,
the Dera chief did not even touch upon the stand-off, focussing on female foeticide instead.

But Sikh leaders opposed to Punjab Chief Minister Parkash Singh Badal have
rejected the sect's statement.

Thanks

Post Script : "Why many from not-so-prosperous areas of state have turned to Dera"

" They come to the Dera for its puritanism. At the top of the 47-point rule book of the Sacha Sauda Dera is prohibition against monetary offerings, television, eggs, non-vegetarian food, but above all, intoxicants. Pappu Garg joined Salabatpura Dera in Bathinda district in 1995. “I was 19 at that time and a liquor addict. Everything changed the day I became a Dera follower. I quit drinking and began concentrating on my work.” He is now the Dera’s media advisor..."

"..drug addiction runs extremely high. Bhandari says on an average at least one person among the state’s 2, 29,000 households is addicted to alcohol or poppy husk..."

The ban on intoxicants was cited the most by the women The Indian Express spoke to inside the Salabatpura Dera as their primary reason for joining it. They come to the Dera to enhance social status. In a state with a very large SC population — almost 29 per cent — the Dera also offers an equal space. But for Punjab Dalits, says Pramod Kumar, director of the Chandigarh-based Institute for Development and Communication, going to the Dera is not so much an act of seeking refuge. “Unlike in UP and Bihar, the Dalit in this state is not a victim of purity and pollution, has experienced some occupational mobility, adopted the cultural markers of Jat identity and then looks for a separate arena of assertion”...

...Then there is the 47-point code of conduct. It includes exhortations to social reform — Rule 21 prohibits dowry, Rule 41 advocates widow remarriage — and more quotidian instructions. Rule 46 advises the follower to drink a glass of water and take a 5-minute pause for reflection whenever he or she gets angry."

( CLICK )

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Ramta · May 28, 2007

I have considered that much of modern this Neo-Sikh megaphone diplomacy is driven not by some real threat to Sikhi or other nonsense
but by the notion of the SUPREMACY of the high caste sikhs - and that supremacy being over the the mazabi, Ramdasia, Noormehlia,
Nirankari, Sanatani, Nihang who consider themselves Hindus and therefore it is the Hindus who must be continoulsy put down.

All this rant about Sikhi in danger from these dera's, why, even all that 'hum hindu naheen' rant too, is not essentially a Sikh response,
but the frustrated rant of the truck-driver Jatt in the garb of a Sikh. He wants to settle the score for his past low social position for which
he regards Brahmin and Hinduism as the responsible parties(rightly or wrongly).

This is primarily driven by racism, a plague which aflicts all us Punjabis but in particular the NRI Sikhs who often beleive the
most appalling prejudices about Hindus and beleive themselves to be a genetically, racially, historically and dharmicaly superior
to the Hindus and had once had even going so far as to compare DNA strands but later retracted.

These same people then smugly criticise Non Sikh(read those who do not agree with their fascist mentality) for inequality whilst preaching
to all about the egalitarian and freedom loving basis of Sikhism. If the myths about history, racism etc are shed and the truth be told,
how many Sikhs will remain Sikhs as we know them today ? Will not then the true dharma revive ?

Sikhi is under threat from some Baba who does not follow Rehat ( some committee work ). Sorry guys I don't follow that.
If our faith is something that has to run scared from some Baba who possibly could well be some megalomaniac I don't know
why we even need such faith.
I am not a jatt. I am a Sikh.

If you are still a jatt you are not a Sikh. Besides they haven't contributed zilch to religion. The only thing is that out of all indians
it was the jatt who licked the white mans sole when he tried to rule india. In return the jatt were given land and they worked as slaves
for the british. Once the british were chucked out by our late low caste the likes of UDDHAM SINGH AND BHAGAT SINGH...
the jatt had taken loads of land. Jusy because they owned land they thought they were higher than the rest but infact they are
lower than low. They are still following the white man.

Thanks

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Dhillon · May 28, 2007

How did this went from dera apology to jatt bashing :nerd

Konvicted_Jatt · May 28, 2007

22g ehnu ignore kardia karo bas gal khatam..........

dhana_jatt · May 28, 2007

Dhillon said:
How did this went from dera apology to jatt bashing

copy paste karde nu aap nu ehnu pata ni honda ki kar rea :sleepy

jattpunjabi · May 28, 2007

BulleShah said:
Ramdasia, Noormehlia,
Nirankari, Sanatani, Nihang who consider themselves Hindus and therefore it is the Hindus who must be continoulsy put down.

All this rant about Sikhi in danger from these dera's, why, even all that 'hum hindu naheen' rant too, is not essentially a Sikh response,

This is primarily driven by racism, a plague which aflicts all us Punjabis but in particular the NRI Sikhs who often beleive the

Sikhi is under threat from some Baba

Thanks

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kise nihang nu aakh ke vekhi ke ki tu hindu aa....je sabta reh gaya taan mainu aa ke dassi ke ki guzri tere naal......hum hindu nahin rant kiddan ho gaya?......tu har gall ch NRI nu wich kyu ghadees leounda?....ate haan sikhi nu vakia hi threat aa par rss/noormehlian ate unha vergian da

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Ramta · May 29, 2007

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dhana jatt,

copy paste karde nu aap nu ehnu pata ni honda ki kar rea

Please also tell all where I copy-pasted from...

jattpunjabi,

kise nihang nu aakh ke vekhi ke ki tu hindu aa....je sabta reh gaya taan mainu aa ke dassi ke ki guzri tere naal......hum hindu nahin rant kiddan ho gaya?......tu har gall ch NRI nu wich kyu ghadees leounda?....ate haan sikhi nu vakia hi threat aa par rss/noormehlian ate unha vergian da

If you follow the caste system you are a Hindu.
The Guru Granth begins with the words "Ik Onkar".
I don't understand how you can say you're not Hindu.
Bhai Gurdas ji certainly was a Hindu.
I am not sure about the NRI Goradas community.

Thanks

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Guest33 · May 29, 2007

BulleShah said:
I have considered that much of modern this Neo-Sikh megaphone diplomacy is driven not by some real threat to Sikhi or other nonsense
but by the notion of the SUPREMACY of the high caste sikhs - and that supremacy being over the the mazabi, Ramdasia, Noormehlia,
Nirankari, Sanatani, Nihang who consider themselves Hindus and therefore it is the Hindus who must be continoulsy put down.

This is primarily driven by racism, a plague which aflicts all us Punjabis but in particular the NRI Sikhs who often beleive the
most appalling prejudices about Hindus and beleive themselves to be a genetically, racially, historically and dharmicaly superior
to the Hindus and had once had even going so far as to compare DNA strands but later retracted.

I am not a jatt. I am a Sikh.

If you are still a jatt you are not a Sikh. Besides they haven't contributed zilch to religion. The only thing is that out of all indians
it was the jatt who licked the white mans sole when he tried to rule india. In return the jatt were given land and they worked as slaves
for the british.
Thanks

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Bai Bullia stick to ur topic aah NRI kihon aa gaye ithe..nale bai je tu Jatt ni taan is ch Jattan da ki kasoor...hun je Jatt nu apne Jatt hon te maan hai te tuhnu apne jo vi tusi ho uste maan ni asin ki kariye....thand rakh kaka...and stop the Jatt Bashing...noone has actually looked down upon any other catse or sect on this site...
Thanks.

Da Tiwana · May 29, 2007

BulleShah said:
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The Guru Granth begins with the words "Ik Onkar".
I don't understand how you can say you're not Hindu.
Bhai Gurdas ji certainly was a Hindu.
Thanks

first thing when u ursef say that SGGS ji starts with "Ik Onkar", how does this Onkar turns to Om, when u say it? is there no diff between 'n' and 'm'
another thing you have been trying for such a long tme to associate Sikhs with hindus. then answer a simple question of mine.
Tiwana is surname in muslims and sikhs. so before sikhism, all tiwanas were muslim. then some followed SGGS ji and became sikhs.
now does that mean that i am a hindu now? coz wot i can make out is, that Tiwana can either be sikh or a muslim, so how do you categorize people like me? could you just please explain this to me.

ya one more thing, just please please, i seriously beg of you, please answer this question of mine and do not neglect it, like you have done with quite a few previous questions of mine.

THANKS.

jattpunjabi · May 29, 2007

<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">BS, gal ih nai ho rahi ke main ki haan ya tu ki hain.....gal aa ke ik badi ghatia sanstha hai RSS jisda kamm hai ke ih show karna bai sikh aa jede oh basically hindu aa....jadon ke sikhi ate hinduism dian kush practices vakhriaan han...oh hamesha dona diaan similarties nu quote karke aa gal kardiaan han jo ke asal ch hai nai....ate us ghatia RSS de kush tankhahi bande net utte baith ke aa parchaar karde aa....unha da mukh kamm hai sikhi nu neevan vekhouna.....oh ih sidh karan di try ch aa ke sikhan de dharam granth SGGS upnishedan utte based hai.....oh aine moorakh han ke jaan taan unha ne SGGS nu nai ashi taran padhia ya aavde upnishedaan nu.....je dhyaan naal vekhiaa jaave taan kush ku similarties hon de baavjood dona ch bot wadda anter hai....dona de social/religious principle aini ku hadd tak vakhre han ke ik moorakh banda v sheti ih jaan janda hai ke asal ch sikhism ate hinduism alag alag han.....fer v oh iko gall utte ratt layi jande han....hun dass ki oh moorakh han ya jaan bujh ke anjaan bane hoye han? main teri is gal naal sehmat haan ke is duniya ch sabh barabar han....sikhi ch taan koi ajehi gal hi nai aa....SGGS ch v ihi likia hai ke hindu/muslim/sikh/isai sabh iko han.....par gal ho rae hai ik dharam nu follow karan di ate us dharam de vakhre vakhre sidhaanta di.....sikhism taan shru hoya c ke hindu/muslim dharam diaan galat gallan nu sodhya gaya c.....ih v aakh sakde haan ke sikhism , hinduism ate muslim dharam noo sodh ke banaia gaya hai.....dona diaan jo kamiaan c unha nu door karke ik nava dharam banaya gaya.....rahi gal jiddan tu akda ke main sikh haan ya hindu haan taan je main sikh hundiaan hoiaan tere anusaar hindu haan taan unha hi muslim ate christian haan.....par kyuke main hindu/muslim/christian de sidhaanta nu shad ke sirf ate sirf sikhi de sidhaanta nu manda haan taan main bade fakhar naal akhda haan ke main sikh haan........main hindu, muslim ya isai nai.........got it
nd aa jeda tu gal gal utte aa goradas ya NRI di gall karda hain na ih koi bahuti siani gal nai hai...india ch hi janta sirf ate sirf sikhi nu mandi hai jo mandi hai.....</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on">
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BulleShah said:
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jattpunjabi,

If you follow the caste system you are a Hindu.
The Guru Granth begins with the words "Ik Onkar".
I don't understand how you can say you're not Hindu.
Bhai Gurdas ji certainly was a Hindu.
I am not sure about the NRI Goradas community.

Thanks

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pps309 · May 29, 2007

Bulleshah,

Going by your logic, Pakistan is part of India, it is not a separate country.

According to your logic, Buddhisim is also Hinduism or better I will say all Buddhists are Hindu.

If this is the way you think...............keep on thinking.......Sorry friend, it is difficult for me to help you out.

P.S.-> I respect all religions. I have friends from all religions and castes.
My best friend is a Hindu.......but we never distinguished between he being Hindu or I being a Sikh.

It is people like you who created this indiffernce.
Ik gal punjabi ch jarur kehna mangda main tainu.............Aape beej aap hi khau..............or hindi ch.....boya per babul ka ta aam kaha se hoye........

dhana_jatt · May 29, 2007

majh aage bean bajuan da ki faiyda... :sleepy

je tu bulleya kehna ki i dont follow jo v sikh dharam ch likehya te main qustion karuga... so tell me y dont u question buddhisim .... ohna nu quest kar jake ethe sade aage bakwas karan di koi lod ni ae... bohat tamasha vekh leya tera... hale v sudhar ja.. tenu aap nu pata ni lagda ki keh rea.... ik post ch likheya c tu ki dera sacha saudha aala galat banda ... hun likh rea jere sikh ne oh high caste :blah

... oh low castes ta aaukhe hoye paye ne... je tenu sade dharam bare kuch pata hi ni hai ta vich bolan di v lod ni ae.... :ban

dhana_jatt · May 29, 2007

BulleShah said:
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dhana jatt,

Please also tell all where I copy-pasted from...

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karda tu ae pata mainu hove... kade aapne valo kuch likheya hun tak?
jad dekho bakwas karda rehna...

Swashbuckling · May 29, 2007

jattan vargi anakh kise hor ch ni, jattan warga robh kise hor ch ni te jattan warga mehnat karan da jazba kise hor ch ni............naale eh dere aale baba hi kyon kise v baabe kol chale jao thonu sab ton ghatt jatt milange ehna dereyan ch because jatt hamesha shri guru granth saab nu guru manda te sirf ohna agge sirr jhukaunda...........te fer assin sikh kiven ni hoye...............kush ni jatt bharavo ehnu bass jattan ton inferiority complex aa jiven baki sariyan castes waleyan nu hunda, iss layee ignore karo ehnu

Swashbuckling · May 29, 2007

jattan vargi anakh kise hor ch ni, jattan warga robh kise hor ch ni te jattan warga mehnat karan da jazba kise hor ch ni............naale eh dere aale baba hi kyon kise v baabe kol chale jao thonu sab ton ghatt jatt milange ehna dereyan ch because jatt hamesha shri guru granth saab nu guru manda te sirf ohna agge sirr jhukaunda...........te fer assin sikh kiven ni hoye...............kush ni jatt bharavo ehnu bass jattan ton inferiority complex aa jiven baki sariyan castes waleyan nu hunda, iss layee ignore karo ehnu

Swashbuckling · May 29, 2007

Naale Bulle Shah Jaan Jo V An.......jehda Topic Hunda Na Sirf Ohde Baare Likheya Karr...........je Jatt Vs Rest Chauna Taan Iss Topic Te Thread Bana ............ Teri Poori Tasalli Karavange

SHauKeeN GaBRu · May 30, 2007

Babe ne te maafi nahi mangi smirk

gorakhnathdatilla · May 30, 2007

Post Script : "Why many from not-so-prosperous areas of state have turned to Dera"

where are you from Bulle Shah.. ? I would like to know... would u please tell me?

" They come to the Dera for its puritanism. At the top of the 47-point rule book of the Sacha Sauda Dera is prohibition against monetary offerings, television, eggs, non-vegetarian food, but above all, intoxicants. Pappu Garg joined Salabatpura Dera in Bathinda district in 1995. “I was 19 at that time and a liquor addict. Everything changed the day I became a Dera follower. I quit drinking and began concentrating on my work.” He is now the Dera’s media advisor..."

All these bad habits .. which Pappu Garg left while attending Dera.. could be left holding hands with Sikhism.. and even without Sikhism also.. i don't consider it a big or considerable reason to follow deraism. you can go to drug-rehabiliation camps to leave drugs.. no need to join any dera.
"..drug addiction runs extremely high. Bhandari says on an average at least one person among the state’s 2, 29,000 households is addicted to alcohol or poppy husk..."

Yes.. it is true. Thanks for the info though.
The ban on intoxicants was cited the most by the women The Indian Express spoke to inside the Salabatpura Dera as their primary reason for joining it. They come to the Dera to enhance social status.

You did not mention the reason for them not going or turning to Sikhism for the same reason.. why did they prefer these Deras particularly.. while Sikhism could also assist them in doing what they intended to do.

In a state with a very large SC population — almost 29 per cent — the Dera also offers an equal space. But for Punjab Dalits, says Pramod Kumar, director of the Chandigarh-based Institute for Development and Communication, going to the Dera is not so much an act of seeking refuge. “Unlike in UP and Bihar, the Dalit in this state is not a victim of purity and pollution, has experienced some occupational mobility, adopted the cultural markers of Jat identity and then looks for a separate arena of assertion”...

And this Deraism and man-worshipping is their arena of assertion .. hmmm? this or that.. they are accepting refuge and oppression.. either of Jatts or of these Babas.. smirk

...Then there is the 47-point code of conduct. It includes exhortations to social reform — Rule 21 prohibits dowry, Rule 41 advocates widow remarriage — and more quotidian instructions. Rule 46 advises the follower to drink a glass of water and take a 5-minute pause for reflection whenever he or she gets angry."

What is so new in his 47 so-called rules.. ? they all are a fine copy and paste from the world religions. when u create a new cult or religion as such.. you are not refining humanity.. but yea... u r filling ur money box for sure.. all this can be followed without falling into the hands of these Deras and all..dont u think?

( CLICK )

I have considered that much of modern this Neo-Sikh megaphone diplomacy is driven not by some real threat to Sikhi or other nonsense
but by the notion of the SUPREMACY of the high caste sikhs - and that supremacy being over the the mazabi, Ramdasia, Noormehlia,
Nirankari, Sanatani, Nihang who consider themselves Hindus and therefore it is the Hindus who must be continoulsy put down.

Did u go to the homes of all these Mazabis, Ramdasias, Noormehlias, Nirankaris, Santanis and 'Nihangs' (Well.. i thought Nihangs were Sikhs.. when did they became Hindus?) before writing this? I think they hang the pictures of Guru Gobind Singh and Guru Nanak Dev more than Sri Ram Chandra or Sri Krishna on their walls? So.. how can u say that they 'Consider themselves Hindus' ?

All this rant about Sikhi in danger from these dera's, why, even all that 'hum hindu naheen' rant too, is not essentially a Sikh response,
but the frustrated rant of the truck-driver Jatt in the garb of a Sikh. He wants to settle the score for his past low social position for which
he regards Brahmin and Hinduism as the responsible parties(rightly or wrongly).

Aaah Brahamnical gallaan kithho aa gaiyan yaar wich hun? Mainu ta pata hi nai si ke Mansa Bhatinda area aah galaan wi sochda ae! smirk Or are you simply putting words in their mouths?

This is primarily driven by racism, a plague which aflicts all us Punjabis but in particular the NRI Sikhs who often beleive the
most appalling prejudices about Hindus and beleive themselves to be a genetically, racially, historically and dharmicaly superior
to the Hindus and had once had even going so far as to compare DNA strands but later retracted.

can u give any proof of this?

These same people then smugly criticise Non Sikh(read those who do not agree with their fascist mentality) for inequality whilst preaching
to all about the egalitarian and freedom loving basis of Sikhism. If the myths about history, racism etc are shed and the truth be told,
how many Sikhs will remain Sikhs as we know them today ? Will not then the true dharma revive ?

Well.. what is so odd if a Sikh criticises a Non-Sikh for inequality whilst preaching to all about the egalitarian and freedom loving basis of Sikhism?
Sikhi is under threat from some Baba who does not follow Rehat ( some committee work ).

Do u know what is Rehat? smirk

Sorry guys I don't follow that.
If our faith is something that has to run scared from some Baba who possibly could well be some megalomaniac I don't know
why we even need such faith.
Who is forcing you to keep such a faith? leave it if u want to.. :nail

I am not a jatt. I am a Sikh.
If you are still a jatt you are not a Sikh. Besides they haven't contributed zilch to religion. The only thing is that out of all indians
it was the jatt who licked the white mans sole when he tried to rule india. In return the jatt were given land and they worked as slaves
for the british.

Ohh? and from which source did u get all this info? :nerd

Once the british were chucked out by our late low caste the likes of UDDHAM SINGH AND BHAGAT SINGH...
the jatt had taken loads of land. Jusy because they owned land they thought they were higher than the rest but infact they are
lower than low. They are still following the white man.

Come and watch the scene in Chandigarh and Mohali.. even low caste Sikh boys are licking the boots of Britney Spears and Johnny Depp. It is about having some cash in ur purse .. not about being a Jatt or a Lower caste.. as far as i think.... baaki thhoda gyan pata nai kiddhro aunda te kiddhr janda..

Ramta · May 30, 2007

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Da Tiwana,

first thing when u ursef say that SGGS ji starts with "Ik Onkar", how does this Onkar turns to Om, when u say it? is there no diff between 'n' and 'm'
another thing you have been trying for such a long tme to associate Sikhs with hindus

Onkar is not a single word but a conjoin of two words both having
diffenerent meaning. Onkar is "Om/On/Aum/Aung" + "Kara".
All these are sanskrit words which ofcource will be written
differenetly in non-sanskrit. 'mumma' is used only in English.
(By the way Aung is south-east-asian as in Aung lang suu kyi)

Onkara is the same good old Omkara.
Ik + Om + Kara.
You say its not Om.
What does 'On' mean ?

'Om' is how you pronounce 'Om'. 'Kara' is how you pronunce 'Kara'.
The two spoken of as a conjoined 'One', even if written as 'Omkara',
is pronounced as 'Onkara'

Even in Mandukya Upanishad 'Om' is written as ॐ
It's the conjoin of 'Sarvam+Om+kar' written as सर्वमोङ्कार
Take a good look :

ॐ इत्येतदक्षरमिदँ सर्वं तस्योपव्याख्यानं
भूतं भवद् भविष्यदिति सर्वमोङ्कार एव
यच्चान्यत् त्रिकालातीतं तदप्योङ्कार एव ॥ १ ॥

Sanskritic rules of sandhi or phonetic liaison turn the
'm' of 'Om' into a velar/guttural 'n'
when preceded by the velar/guttural 'ka'...

Any conjunct nasal consonant can be represented however, by a 'm',
but in pronunciation, must match the consonant group to which the
proceeding consonant belongs.

For More Information Click

Thanks

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Da Tiwana · May 30, 2007

if it was supposed to be om, then why wasn't it written as om?
why was 'n' used instead of 'm'? can you please explain that

and also in my post i had another question, what about its answer? :kin

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