Why we need religion ?

Da Tiwana

Inspector Sa'ab ;)
We humans go through the same biological functions as other animals yet we are considered different and superior than all of them. We claim this because we have the unique faculty to understand that we humans have a mission or purpose in life other than to just exist, procreate and die as other living beings do. This mission is provided only by religion. Actually religion provides a lot more than mere discipline to keep peace in society. It gives meaning to the life of human beings. Religion tells what human beings are to achieve besides just completing the biological cycle as Homo sapiens.
Humans live not only to enjoy their life and continue their species but they have a purpose in life as well. No scientist, sociologist or scholar can tell that purpose. What one is expected to do with one’s life can only be explained by a holy person, whom we call Gur Ji or a prophet or guide. The mission and the path advised to be followed by a devotee is named religion or faith. That is how we have so many religions today.
Discussing the negative aspect of religion, as a cause of hatred and war, it was found that it is politicians who misuse religion, otherwise, there is nothing inherently wrong in the philosophy of religion. Also, politicians split people into nations, ethnic groups, linguistic divisions, regional units, etc., to make people fight with each other. They even divide professional people to create conflicts amongst them. The groups fight for their economic and political benefits. <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:PLACE>Po</ST1:PLACE>liticians will use anything and everything to divide humanity; religion is just one of them. It is the people who must stand up against corrupt politicians when they misuse it.

this is all that i can think at them moment baaki efr kade sahi.........
 

diamond4ever

BIG KID
i think it is as simple as a philosophy or set of rules that you live your life by.......

but all in all with all the selfish agendas, goals, feelings, emotions... IT is a reminder for all of us that we must always stand by the truth and always reach out for the truth. It is for us to be reminded about the higher power that is above us.

How you live your life is a your religion.

lol...there! me and my philosophy...which ofcourse you are not obligated to agree with.
 

munda_wakhre_type_da

-- Kem da Gui --
religion simply teaches u the way of living life..to live life in harmony,peace and to do good to others ..

truly speakin i dont believe in god bt on the other hand i know very well wt my religion is and wt it teaches and i respect it totally ..some people simple try to prove dat da religion dey practice is da best..just wanna say dat dose guy simply need to have a life.. prove karke ve ki khatlena and infact if dey really believe in dere faith to dat extent den dey shd realise dat no religion says dat its da best .. by doin so dey simply are moving away frm dere religion.. and haan jad koi kuch galat info dinda abouth sikhism taa dmaag khraab hunda .... j asin kade kise bare galat gal nahi kende kade ta isda matlab eh ni k asin munh ni khol sakde...

te one more thing ..as far as sikhism goes i simply wud like to say k the teachings in it to lead a good life are very modern and have a very scientific approach ..

equality of genders and a religion which ends all biases on caste color creed bt da irony is dat da ones who on one side simply show off to b die hard followers are indulged in such practices..

so j koi kise religion nu follow karna chaunda hai taa one shd follow it to its true senses.. emotional hoke folow karna and real teachings nu apne aap tod marod karke aap rules bnaane uda koi faida ni

in da end apna ik hasab ae k " tera karam di tera dharam hai" so i belive in deeds .
 

Ramta

Member
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Look where sikhi started... Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh, 1699, we were one with love for each other, this love and oneness bought us together, 10,000 khalsa here 50,000 there. Look, as time passes, one group from the next, even jatha and taksal haven't escaped the offshoots coming. We are all divided, we give no encouragement to our youth, we are failing others through debates and consequences that follow. All of us know what usually happens :

Any great edifice created by the Human mind will willy-nilly crumble under pressure from Human nature.

Religion and unquestioned faith is not just a useless commodity, its harmful. Natural selection should have taken care of it since it is harmful but it didn't happen. Because religion/God is a byproduct of the evolutionary processes. Children are biologically and genetically programmed to believe in everything their parents tell them and so a lot of useless information is passed on in the name of tradition.

God or Religion cannot provide answers to everything. I am not saying science or reason can but that doesn't mean that we start looking for them in faith or religion which are at best indistinguishable from childhood fantacies like the bogeyman under the bed. If we look at the recent history of the world what we see is that all the problems and all the death and destruction caused had beed caused in the name of God or religion be it Islamic extremism or the Khalistani militancy. Whatever the political/social motivation they both were acts of religion. They believed they were doing Gods work and will be rewarded. It's the moderates(who basically are decent and nice people) who are at fault who continue to prepare the ground(inadvertantly) for the extremists by propagating and teaching, especially to young children, the virtues of blind and unquestioned faith.

Whatever the purposes religion is supposed to fulfills religion has failed to fulfilled andcan and should be filled by something else. Contemplation of the natural and immediate environment can do the job.

I am not anti-God but but I allways turn to reason and intellect not empiricism. No one can practice pure sikhi or Hindu-Dharma. We live because thats what we are here for. We work to fulfill our and families needs. It's the immediate environment we are born in and destined to share that should provide motivation, exhortation and inspiration. People motivated, exhorted and inspired by religion/God always do more damage than good.

Thanks

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rockaclimba

Member
RELIGION WAS REQUIRED BEACUSE

1. There were forced for ancient man which were powerful than him. SNAKE, FIRE, LION,LEOPARD,BULL ...so these becomes GODS. Then there were forces which were helpful and life oriented COW, SUN, SPEAR, VAGINA + PENIS [ Taken as symbol of life creation ]

Man needed religion to cover fear. All old religions are fear oriented. FEAR OF GOD IS BEGINNING OF KNOWLEDGE. Almost in every section of century- there were some religions which created shivers...drinking blood and human sacrifices are well known in some religions. They were knowing or unknowingly tools in hands of rulers...to keep people in fear. I am talking about Aztec.

Same attempt of keeping people under rules has been done by HINDU BRAHMINS and CHRISTIAN POPES. We can see that in our history books.

SIKHISM and BUDDHISM were new religions. SIKHISM could not have existed- had it not been G. Gobind Singh who stopped pratha and said GURU MANIO GRANTH. I do not know had his any son been alive-what could have been the scene.

But SIKHISM - after Guruji become sign of terror- specially what BANDA BAHADUR did. Although sikhs were treated badly by muslims invaders but what ever B. Bahadur did was not according to rituals and teachings of Gurus.

This started a great debate and slowly slowly there comes sections and sub-sections of this great religion which was compiled by great teachings of FARID, KABIR and BABA NANAK.

{ Baba Nanak has his mention in some hidden and not-allowed books of Tibet and Buddhism also. I talked about this issue with HEAD LAMA OF HEMIS MONASTERY in LEH-he confirmed that when he was young- he heard about it but never read those books as it is not allowed }

RELIGION NOW
Now- we do not need GOD at all. Life and it's meaning has changed. Relations and it's depth has changed...and with these all changes..we need churches and Gurudwaras for socializing or getting rid of guilt. I know- this will anger many people but this how I have seen.

1. People go well dressed in churches and rich people never sits on back benches...they are always in front.

2. Cell phone rings in SATSUNGS and now there are thousands of GURU's who are explaining BANI which was wrriten by a simple man like GURU NANAK DEV. There is worse to it....i am stopping here.

NOTE: My views and post was not to hurt anyone. If by any chance- my words are harsh to hurt your feeling-please be sure that this was not intended. MODERATOR CAN PLEASE DELETE THIS POST.
 
RELIGION WAS REQUIRED BEACUSE



SIKHISM and BUDDHISM were new religions. SIKHISM could not have existed- had it not been G. Gobind Singh who stopped pratha and said GURU MANIO GRANTH. I do not know had his any son been alive-what could have been the scene.

.


je aa sawaal aa taan kyu guru Gobind Singh Ji ne aavda sara parivaar kurbaan kita????? pita, chaare putter........ik gal dass ki sare guruan de son hi next guru bane c??????????
 
RELIGION WAS REQUIRED BEACUSE


RELIGION NOW
Now- we do not need GOD at all. Life and it's meaning has changed. Relations and it's depth has changed...and with these all changes..we need churches and Gurudwaras for socializing or getting rid of guilt. I know- this will anger many people but this how I have seen.

1. People go well dressed in churches and rich people never sits on back benches...they are always in front.

2. Cell phone rings in SATSUNGS and now there are thousands of GURU's who are explaining BANI which was wrriten by a simple man like GURU NANAK DEV. There is worse to it....i am stopping here.

NOTE: My views and post was not to hurt anyone. If by any chance- my words are harsh to hurt your feeling-please be sure that this was not intended. MODERATOR CAN PLEASE DELETE THIS POST.

well then how u can religion is wrong???? followers r wrong......these satsangi gurus like radaswamis,nirankaris etc r wrong.....simply they r distorting gurbani and misguiding ppl (sp. in rural areas)....these babes,sants,saadhs made religion worse.
 

rockaclimba

Member
First of all, lets not name any sect..this gives the forum a un required heat. Religion is sensitive subject and specially to we people. We have to have boroader outlook and mature understanding when talking and debating on it. I think I will not be mis-understood. By the way- I am once again..thankful to all viewers...i am sure we will be having good discussion.

1. Jattpunjabi ! You are right but Guru Gobins Singh Ji happens to be very sensitive soul. His MITTER PIYARE NOON shows his sensitivity. But got defeated by TOPOGRAPHY of Punjab. Please note that SHIVAJI MARATHA and GURU JI were in same time and there is lot of similarities bwteen two.

1. Style of war [ Guerrilla warfare ]
2. Clothing
3. Use of horses and personal appearances and many innovations in weapons.

Guru Ji - was interested to start a RELIGION. But he wanted someone to guide sikhs as by then sikhs were in retreat and invaders were becoming heavy on them. Banda Bahadur did his part but was not capable of spiritual guidance. These both factors could have been only in family which we all knew were sacrificed in struggle.

So, Guru Gobind Sing Ji - had very tough life, starting from seeing his father killed and then fighting and hiding whole life manages to somehow unite then UN-UNITED Punjab. Remember- not all Nawabs and small Kings of then Punjab supported struggle against Muslim invaders.

2. jattpunjabi ! you wrote bit bluntly...I did not wanted to name anyone. There are thousands right now in Punjab and overseas who are called GURUs and preaching BANI.
Coming to your point: Religion is never BAD or WRONG. No religion teaches what we are doing right now.

RELIGION: It is not organized syndicate. All saints....I repeat all saint teaches to come out and acknowledge. No one started any religion [ Christ, Buddha, Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji , Mahavira, Abraham ] But as soon as these saints were gone...poor and innocents were taken for ride. This is what happens after demise of BABA NANAK. Gaddi system starts which was not expected and accepted by NANAK himself.

HARSH: Man has killed more men in name of GOD. No HITLER, NO ATOMIC BOMBING, NO JOSEPH STALIN or COMBODIA RULERS have killed [ All in total ] people...as compared to killed on this planet in name of GOD.
 
ssa g
dasam granth de vich eh likiya hai.



siri mukh bhanyo garib nivaj
sastaran ke adheen hai raaj
raaj binna nahi dharam chale hai
dharam bina sab dale male hai.



waheguru g ka khalsa
waheguru g ki fathe
 

dhana_jatt

~*~ NiMaNa ~*~
ssa g
dasam granth de vich eh likiya hai.



siri mukh bhanyo garib nivaj
sastaran ke adheen hai raaj
raaj binna nahi dharam chale hai
dharam bina sab dale male hai.



waheguru g ka khalsa
waheguru g ki fathe

wah khalse kya kaim gal kiti ae....thnx bro :hug
 

Ramta

Member
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jattpunjabi,

je aa sawaal aa taan kyu guru Gobind Singh Ji ne aavda sara parivaar kurbaan kita????? pita, chaare putter........ik gal dass ki sare guruan de son hi next guru bane c??????????


What would happen to your religious life if, hypothetically, all history(including that of Guru Gobind Singh)
were voided or made inaccessible to you or somehow falsified beyond hope? In other words, imagine that
due to some strange reasons, the details of which are irrelevant, you have to live your life without having any
knowledge passed down through any historical events whatsoever.

What would you do?

Would it be possible for you to lead a religious life, and if so, by what authority would you do so?
In other words, can you discover the spiritual truth for yourselves without dependence on historical sources,
or would you be lost if such historical sources were simply unavailable or unreliable??

The point is : Let's generalise the topic "Why we need religion ?"...
instead of veering towards details and irrelevencies...


well then how u can religion is wrong???? followers r wrong......



If a religion fails to tame the followers its the fault of religion indeed.
The realm of religion and Empiricism based on it has failed to provide what it promised to.
We must explore the realm of 'common-sense'.

Thanks

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First of all, lets not name any sect..this gives the forum a un required heat. Religion is sensitive subject and specially to we people. We have to have boroader outlook and mature understanding when talking and debating on it. I think I will not be mis-understood. By the way- I am once again..thankful to all viewers...i am sure we will be having good discussion.

1. Jattpunjabi ! You are right but Guru Gobins Singh Ji happens to be very sensitive soul. His MITTER PIYARE NOON shows his sensitivity. But got defeated by TOPOGRAPHY of Punjab. Please note that SHIVAJI MARATHA and GURU JI were in same time and there is lot of similarities bwteen two.

1. Style of war [ Guerrilla warfare ]
2. Clothing
3. Use of horses and personal appearances and many innovations in weapons.

Guru Ji - was interested to start a RELIGION. But he wanted someone to guide sikhs as by then sikhs were in retreat and invaders were becoming heavy on them. Banda Bahadur did his part but was not capable of spiritual guidance. These both factors could have been only in family which we all knew were sacrificed in struggle.

So, Guru Gobind Sing Ji - had very tough life, starting from seeing his father killed and then fighting and hiding whole life manages to somehow unite then UN-UNITED Punjab. Remember- not all Nawabs and small Kings of then Punjab supported struggle against Muslim invaders.

2. jattpunjabi ! you wrote bit bluntly...I did not wanted to name anyone. There are thousands right now in Punjab and overseas who are called GURUs and preaching BANI.
Coming to your point: Religion is never BAD or WRONG. No religion teaches what we are doing right now.

RELIGION: It is not organized syndicate. All saints....I repeat all saint teaches to come out and acknowledge. No one started any religion [ Christ, Buddha, Guru Nanak or Guru Gobind Singh Ji , Mahavira, Abraham ] But as soon as these saints were gone...poor and innocents were taken for ride. This is what happens after demise of BABA NANAK. Gaddi system starts which was not expected and accepted by NANAK himself.

HARSH: Man has killed more men in name of GOD. No HITLER, NO ATOMIC BOMBING, NO JOSEPH STALIN or COMBODIA RULERS have killed [ All in total ] people...as compared to killed on this planet in name of GOD.


You can find similarties everywhere btw wts connection between Guru Gobind Singh Ji nd shivaji here????.... wats the need to mention shivaji here.....as shivaji was not related to religious guru or smthing like that.....shivaji was a ruler.....he belonged to maratha clan.......nd for ur kind information maratha clan consists of hindu, muslim, christian nd neo-buddhists communities but its a different matter that u can find majority of hindus......there is no comparison between Guru Gobind Singh Ji and shivaji maratha....if u wanna, u can cmpare with maharaja ranjit singh...nd silmilarity of clothes......haha....yeah u r rite......unfortunately , due to unavailibilty of fashion designers there was not much choice in clothes(dont take it seriously, just kiddin).....now lets talk bout guerilla warfare......its a co-incidence.....betwwn 13th nd 19th centuaries gurellia war was common in euorope as well.....sm examples r
gureilla war was used by roman republic against hannible
peasents in hungery used against mongols
was used in poland .....
balkans used against ottoman empire
used in england, france
and ire land nd russia
Now lets talk bout Guru Gobind Singh Ji.....guruji fought for religion ....Bulleshah said (not dis BS) ..."na kahun jab ki, na kahun tab ki, baat kahun main ab ki, agar na hote Gobind Singh, sunnat hoti sabh ki"....i think only this line is of great Bulleshah(not dis BS) is enuff to describe greatness of guru ji....nd as a great writer, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has written scriptures, which cannot be understood without spiritual practice...only if u maditate then able to understand....guruji protected the religion....he showed the path of truth...he established khalsa who brought back glory of this country...he sacrificed his whole family only for religion, there is not such example in history....je hai taan dass????......nd so on.....there r countless points that shows gurujis greatness....nd ur comparing guruji with shivaji.....no doubt shivaji was great warrior....check the history....guru ji have had only handfull of sikhs as comparison to mughal forces....ik ik sikh kinia utte bhari pia......guruji said " sava laakh se ek ladaaun tabhi gobind singh naam kahaaun".....nd its absolutely true........sorry to say but with a force of 25,000, shivaji during his lifetime could capture only a small part of Maha(others expanded later)....i didnt get ur comparison here....nd horses.......i dont think tanks, trucks, airforce etc; was available.....only horses n elephants were there....NOW u said guru ji was interested to start religion.....wt a kiddish.....religion was already there.....sikh religion......nd that was started by Guru Nanak Dev Ji....." maaria sikka jagat wich nanak nirmal panth chalaia" (sorry if words r not correct, kush aidan hi aa)....there was no need to start a new religion by the 10th guru of one religion.....Banda Singh Bahadur.....he lost at end coz there were below 4000 singhs and 100000 mughal tr00ps......nd u said he was not capable of spirtual guidance......could u tlz tell me the ratio of abdali tr00ps nd marathas tr00ps?? i think 1:4.....hai na.....marathas were foure time more than abdalis tr00ps.....who lost who won??


contd.
 
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jattpunjabi,



What would happen to your religious life if, hypothetically, all history(including that of Guru Gobind Singh)
were voided or made inaccessible to you or somehow falsified beyond hope? In other words, imagine that
due to some strange reasons, the details of which are irrelevant, you have to live your life without having any
knowledge passed down through any historical events whatsoever.

What would you do?






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it neither happened nor gonna be happen....its not a case in sikhi....we already noe our history....its different matter sm ppl r tryin to change history even in skool books.....its not good anyway
 
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jattpunjabi,





The point is : Let's generalise the topic "Why we need religion ?"...
instead of veering towards details and irrelevencies...




If a religion fails to tame the followers its the fault of religion indeed.
The realm of religion and Empiricism based on it has failed to provide what it promised to.
We must explore the realm of 'common-sense'.

Thanks

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- -
i didnt give mah bout religion yet..i was disagree at sm point thats wy....well tell me one thing....wy ppl r using their full strength to change the basics of other religion? plz try to xplain in short

thanks
 
i doubt dis... infact i disagree totally

me too bro....history tells that.... Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Himself gave "Gurgaddi"
to his follower Bhai Lehna Ji( later known as Guru Angad Dev Ji).....thats why his own son who was interested in "Gurgaddi" was not happy.....nd so on every Guru gave Gurgaddi to next guru......nd that guy is saying GuruNanak Dev ji not accepted gaddi system.....hehehehehe
 

Ramta

Member
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jattpunjabi,

it neither happened nor gonna be happen....its not a case in sikhi....we already noe our history....its different matter sm ppl r tryin to change history even in skool books.....its not good anyway

i didnt give mah bout religion yet..i was disagree at sm point thats wy....well tell me one thing....wy ppl r using their full strength to change the basics of other religion? plz try to xplain in short


Nobody is trying to change the basic principles of Sikhi. When I asked :

"What would happen to your religious life if, hypothetically, all history(including that of Guru Gobind Singh)
were voided or made inaccessible to you or somehow falsified beyond hope? In other words, imagine that
due to some strange reasons, the details of which are irrelevant, you have to live your life without having any
knowledge passed down through any historical events whatsoever.

What would you do?

Would it be possible for you to lead a religious life, and if so, by what authority would you do so?
In other words, can you discover the spiritual truth for yourselves without dependence on historical sources,
or would you be lost if such historical sources were simply unavailable or unreliable??"

...what I meant was : Is your spiritual advancement dependent on History ??

My spiritual advancement for one, is independent of the history of the Sikh- Gurus.
The life story of the Guru is not important for the principles they talked about to work.

The effectiveness of the Vedic mantras iss independent of the personal history of the Vedic rishis.

The practices of Tantra are not contingent upon belief in the history of anyone.

The effect of bhajans (devotional songs) is not based on any belief in the history of
the bhakti saints or the histories of any deities.

Finally, the the principles enshrined in the Shri Guru-Granthji are independent
of the History of Nanak and the following Guru's.

Newton had a personal history but his specific life events are not necessary for
the gravitation laws to be in effect today.
Newton or no Newton the gravitational laws always worked fine.

Some may say that the Big Bang was a unique event that physicists believe in,
thereby making physics History-Centric. However, this argument is flawed:
Physicists believe in the Big Bang Theory not as a premise of physics.
Rather, the Big Gang Theory is a conclusion that is scientifically derived
based on physical laws and empirical evidence that is verifiable today.
Hence, the Big Bang Theory does not make physics History-Centric:
it is a result of physical theory and not a pre-requisite belief or cause of it.
Those who regard it as evidence of History-Centrism are mixing causes and effects.

Is Sikhism History-centric ??

What I am asking is :
Do the Sikh principles appeal to you because you are sure Nanak existed?
What if if one has not History of Nanak to lean on ?
Does Guru Granth becomes irrelevent ?

Thats what I am asking.

Thanks

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