ram

who was ram???
 

Attachments

  • ram.jpg
    ram.jpg
    141.1 KB · Views: 660

Dhillon

Dhillon Sa'aB™
Staff member
The word Ram and its variants occurs in SGGS thousands of times.
Many times it refers to raja Ram of Ayodhya and many other times it doesn't.
 

Mahaj

YodhaFakeeR
ram in gurbani most of times refers to eternal god......other words like...sahib ...diayala ...guru.....khasam......khuda........parmatama parmeshaar...allah....maulah.....raja..swami....prabh..har ...hari.....are used for eternal god
thrs no place for controversy over ram in gurbani coz gurbani cleary states that it is referring to eternal god not to the son of dasharath ...!!

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥
Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār.
Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you say the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider.

ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||
............ਬਿਬੇਕ sikhi ਬਿਬੇਕ te tikki aa..blind faith te doubt di koi jagah nai
ram da matlab grubani anusaar aa ..rameya hoea....ie in everything ...jida apa kahdia...mera rom rom tere piyaar ch rameya....ik sur huna ....god is in everything.....thats y rameya...ram
fakeer jehra parchalit rubb aa oss barey jayda nai jaandey.....eni ku knowledge c sharey karti ..
 

Dhillon

Dhillon Sa'aB™
Staff member
SGGS doesn't deny the existence of Ram and Krishan

Some copy/paste for you guys:-

raghupati tilaku sundaru dasrath ghari muni banchahi jAki saraNa (Page 1401)
(The Guru is honoured as was the Supreme and beautiful Rama, in the house of Dashratha of the Raghava dynasty.)

gAvai jamadagni parasarAmesur kar kuThAr raghu teju hariO udhau akrUru vidaru guNa gAvai sarbAtamu jini jANiO kabi kal sujasu gAvau gur nAnak rAju jogu jini mAnNiO (Page 1389-90)
(His divine praise is sung by Parashurama, the son of Jamadagni, who was divested of his axe and powers by Raghuvira. Udho, Akrur and Bidur chant the glories of Guru Nanak, who had realized God, pervasive in themselves. Kal, the poet, sings the sublime praises of Guru Nanak, who enjoys both the temporal and spiritual empires.)

satjugi tai maNiO ChaliO bali bAvan bhAiO traite tai maNiO rAm raghuvaMsu kahAiO duApari krisan murAri kaMsu kirtarthu kiO ugrasaiN ka-u rAju amai bhagataha jan dIO kalijugi pramANu nAnak guru angadu amaru kahAiO (Page 1390)
(In Satyayuga, you sported as the dwarf incarnation, and fooled Bali. In Treta, you enjoyed being called Rama of the Raghu dynasty. In Dvapara, becoming Krishna, you killed the demon Mura, and delivered Kamsa. You bestowed the kingdom on Ugrasen, and the state of abhaya (fearlessness) on Your devotees. In the Kali yuga, you are called the Accepted Gurus Nanak, Angad and Amar.)

manahi na kIjai rosu jamahi na dIjai dosu nirmal nirbAN padu cInhi lIjai jasrath rAi nandu rAjA merA rAmcandu praNavai nAmA tatu rasu amritu pIjai (Page 973)
(Do not feel offended in thy mind and attribute not blame to Yama. Contemplate the immaculate dignity of salvation. Namdev prays, my Sovereign Lord is Ramachandra, son of King Dashrath. I quaff the essence of the immortalizing elixir.)

devA pAhan tArI-ale, rAm kahat jan kas na tare tArI le gaNikA binu rUp kubijA bi-Adhi ajAmilu tArI-ale dAsI sut janu bidaru sudAmA ugrasaiN ka-u rAj dI-ai japahIn tapahIn kulahIn kramahIn nAme su-AmI te-U tare (Page 345)
(God has caused the stones to float. Why should not I, Thy slave, float by repeating Thine Name? Thou hast saved Ganika and the hunch-back, and has caused the hunter and Ajamil to swim across. The man-slayer, who shot Krisha in the foot, even he was emancipated. Thou savedst Sudama and slave Vidur, son of a hand-maiden, and gave sovereignty to Ugrasen. Nam Dev’s Lord has saved those without devotion, without penance, without good family lineage and without good acts.)

sang sakhA sabh taji ga-e ko-u na nibahi-O sAth kahu nAnak iha bipat mai Tek ek raghnAth
(My companions and friends have all left me. None has remained with me to the last. Nanak says, in this calamity, Raghunath is my only support.)

Chandi di Vaar - Dasam Granth

ੴ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹ ॥
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਸਹਾਇ ॥
ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ ॥
ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਈਂ ਧਿਆਇ ॥
ਫਿਰ ਅੰਗਦ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਅਮਰਦਾਸੁ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੈ ਹੋਈਂ ਸਹਾਇ ॥
ਅਰਜਨ ਹਰਿਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਨੋ ਸਿਮਰੌ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿਰਾਇ ॥
ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਧਿਆਈਐ ਜਿਸ ਡਿਠੇ ਸਭਿ ਦੁਖਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
ਤੇਗ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਸਿਮਰਿਐ ਘਰ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਆਵੈ ਧਾਇ ॥
ਸਭ ਥਾਈਂ ਹੋਇ ਸਹਾਇ ॥੧॥

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥
ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥
 

Mahaj

YodhaFakeeR
no one here denied that fact ....gurbani do talk about the ram ......but the very first page of ramayan denies existance of ram by sayin " all characters in this play are purely fictitious" i m talkin about the very first original ramayan.
gurbani talks about ram ..shiva....bharma.....jesus chirst ....hazrat .... balnath ...... ..radha..... krishna ...but from the versus u provided ,no where is writtten that to worship any of them .....gurbani even talks about parlahad....but in different sense
and y u forgot those lines form same granths like

ram raheem puran kuraan ...anek kahe matt ek na manneoo
dont try to manipulate gurbani .....or u can start ur own dera if u want ....ths wut everyone is doin lol
read these lines carefully again ....."carefully"
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
mr dhillon's ram (red)
Nanak's and kabeer's ram(black)

guyz follow the one who is worth to follow........get urself according to gurbani ..not gurbani according to urself

So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself
. ||191||
-----------------------------------------------
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
it means some one is stronger and above than ram and krishan who is provinding energy to both of them ........gurbani talks about this someone ..it even makes point more clear that the person who killed ravan and the god are different ....
============================
kal nu koi apne munde da naam waheguru rakhdu ..sarey jane odi pooja kari jaeo ...akhe ji gurbani ch ayea waheguru


umeed a gal chngi nai lagggi hovegi ...khima da jachak
 

Dhillon

Dhillon Sa'aB™
Staff member
No one is telling anyone to worship Ram ( or anyone else for that matter )
The question is: Does SGGS deny the existence of Raja Ram of Ayodhya ?
No, It doesn't !
 

*Sippu*

*FrOzEn TeARs*
no one here denied that fact ....gurbani do talk about the ram ......but the very first page of ramayan denies existance of ram by sayin " all characters in this play are purely fictitious" i m talkin about the very first original ramayan.
gurbani talks about ram ..shiva....bharma.....jesus chirst ....hazrat .... balnath ...... ..radha..... krishna ...but from the versus u provided ,no where is writtten that to worship any of them .....gurbani even talks about parlahad....but in different sense
and y u forgot those lines form same granths like
krishan brishan ko mae naa dheyaaoo
ram raheem puran kuraan ...anek kahe matt ek na manneoo
dont try to manipulate gurbani .....or u can start ur own dera if u want ....ths wut everyone is doin lol
read these lines carefully again ....."carefully"
ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥
mr dhillon's ram (red)
Nanak's and kabeer's ram(black)

guyz follow the one who is worth to follow........get urself according to gurbani ..not gurbani according to urself

So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190||
Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190||

ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥
Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek.
Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction.

ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥
Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191||
One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191||
-----------------------------------------------
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥
ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥
it means some one is stronger and above than ram and krishan who is provinding energy to both of them ........gurbani talks about this someone ..it even makes point more clear that the person who killed ravan and the god are different ....
============================
kal nu koi apne munde da naam waheguru rakhdu ..sarey jane odi pooja kari jaeo ...akhe ji gurbani ch ayea waheguru


umeed a gal chngi nai lagggi hovegi ...khima da jachal
khima da jachak hunda :np

*krishan brishan ko mae(kabhi) naa dheyaaoo EHDA HUNDA
 

kanjjar

Banned
I am yet to meet a person who says/believes that any of the Gurujis or SGGS believed/praised hindu gods :dn.
Maybe i am surrounded by people who actually have common sense :lol2
This is just waste of time........... People with common sense should already know what the above article states.
 

kanjjar

Banned
Thanks for the quotes vishaka but all they show is that there was a zikar of hindu gods which i never denied. i didn't say that SGGS denied the existence of hindu gods. All i said was SGGS never praised or believed in the Hindu gods and their magic or whatever you call it.
 
Top