Punjab Burning

Ramta

Member
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The recent noise over the Dera's proves that most Sikh's dont want to accept that
they are following a path of fascism by forcing their beleifs down other peoples throats.
And its all about keeping the Dalits in place.

Check it out :

(1) ALL Deras to be closed
(2) Dera people have to leave Punjab (who the hell are they to say who lives in Punjab)
(3) They are now attacking and beating Dalits all over Punjab to FORCE them to leave
the DSS and other Deras

As I said 'Fascism'.

Every time a Dalit tries to rise above the the caste system in Punjab these high-caste
Sikhs put them down again. Look at Talhan a few years ago when they desecrated a
Ravidasia place of worship and look now...but they can't keep the poor down forever.

35% of Punjab is 'lower-caste' and they don't approve of mainstream clerics who are
more concerned with with power games and london/toronto/Islamabad Sikhi bhaichara
then their own poor. The fact is that the Dalits are rising and the Sikh establishment
cannot handle that. Most of the Dera people are Dalits , In Punjab hundreds and
thousnad are following these sants and your upper caste fascism will not work any more.
(Scumbags using religion to justify expoitation and oppression)


Also Read : Punjab Burning, Why ?

Thanks

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Ramta

Member
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That the Sikh have not ceased practicing caste-system is something we all know.
There still exist a lot of anti dalit feeling amongst Jatts and Thurkhans as they see it as a step down to marry
into them. Sikhs marry with Hindus of the same caste, while they still avoid marriage with Sikhs of different castes.
Likewise, Sikh politics is largely divided along caste lines, e.g. the Akali movement is one of Jat Sikhs,
shunned by low-caste Sikhs (who are called Mazhabi Sikhs, that is, Sikhs by religion alone, e.g. former
Congress minister Buta Singh) and by the higher Khatri and Arora and Bedi castes to which the Gurus belonged.

Please don't talk to me of any casteless society in India -- where even Muslims and Christians
demand reservations for their OBCs. One of the greatest modern Sikh leaders, Master Tara Singh,
petitioned the GoI to provide special benefits to Harijan Sikhs! He was also one of the founding
members of the VHP! Why didn't anyone challenge Tara Singh's demand vis-a-vis Harijan Sikhs?
What's a Khatri, Jat, Shimbae, Ramgarhia, Kumiar...?
What's written in scriptures, isn't what Indian society follows...

"Sikhi is against casteiesm" we all proclaim....

Babasaheb Ambedkar, sixty years ago, exposed that the Sikhs were even more filled with caste hatred
than the upper caste Hindus.
Tell me, who oppresses Dalits in Punjab ?? Who kills and murders Dailts who try and rise up ?? Who rapes
and murders any 'choora'chumar' who dares to cross the upper caste Sikhs in the villages of Punjab ??
Is it the Bahmans ? NO.
It's the Sikh like the ones who are seen brandishing unsheathed swords on TV and shouting
"sikhi in danger' slogans at the top of their voices - Who use Sikhism as an excuse to put down
and oppress the so called lower caste.
( Punjab is worse even than UP and Bihar - at least there they are the ruling class now, Mayawati anyone ?? )

Why would the lower caste Sikh need to enter any high caste-dera ( SGPC or some other BS )
-- They have done as much for India as higher castes have done, in some cases more )
and yet they suffer so much. The followers of such deras call themselves neither Hindu nor Sikh
- they belong to dharma the true dharma of India - They don't define their religion accoridng
to casteists like SGPC clowns. The Dailts are rising, and no matter how much the oppression
and violence is, won't keep them down.

To hell with Bhindrenwale and his gang of racist Sikhs - The lower castes all saw their justice
in the 1980's and the way in which they treated them.

Thanks

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Ramta

Member
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Another example of 'tolerance' our the great 'religion'...

Hob-nobbing with the extremist constituency, the jathedar or head priest of the Sikh Takht Damdama Sahib,
Balwant Singh Nandgarh publicly offered to weigh in pure gold, "the brave Sikh who brings back
Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh’s head."

Both Nandgarh and Atinder Pal Singh’s proclamations dangerously echo the turbulent summer of 1978,
when following the Akali-Nirankari clash at Chowk Mehta on Baisakhi day, Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale(Brar)
offered a similar bounty for the then Nirankari chief’s head. Two Sikhs, including Ranjit Singh who was later
crowned Jathedar of the Akal Takht, actually carried out Bhindranwale’s bidding and assassinated
Baba Gurbachan Singh in Delhi. What ensued for the next ten years is history.

Thanks.

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That the Sikh have not ceased practicing caste-system is something we all know.
There still exist a lot of anti dalit feeling amongst Jatts and Thurkhans as they see it as a step down to marry
into them. Sikhs marry with Hindus of the same caste, while they still avoid marriage with Sikhs of different castes.
Likewise, Sikh politics is largely divided along caste lines, e.g. the Akali movement is one of Jat Sikhs,
shunned by low-caste Sikhs (who are called Mazhabi Sikhs, that is, Sikhs by religion alone, e.g. former
Congress minister Buta Singh) and by the higher Khatri and Arora and Bedi castes to which the Gurus belonged.

Please don't talk to me of any casteless society in India -- where even Muslims and Christians
demand reservations for their OBCs. One of the greatest modern Sikh leaders, Master Tara Singh,
petitioned the GoI to provide special benefits to Harijan Sikhs! He was also one of the founding
members of the VHP! Why didn't anyone challenge Tara Singh's demand vis-a-vis Harijan Sikhs?
What's a Khatri, Jat, Shimbae, Ramgarhia, Kumiar...?
What's written in scriptures, isn't what Indian society follows...

"Sikhi is against casteiesm" we all proclaim....

Babasaheb Ambedkar, sixty years ago, exposed that the Sikhs were even more filled with caste hatred
than the upper caste Hindus.
Tell me, who oppresses Dalits in Punjab ?? Who kills and murders Dailts who try and rise up ?? Who rapes
and murders any 'choora'chumar' who dares to cross the upper caste Sikhs in the villages of Punjab ??
Is it the Bahmans ? NO.
It's the Sikh like the ones who are seen brandishing unsheathed swords on TV and shouting
"sikhi in danger' slogans at the top of their voices - Who use Sikhism as an excuse to put down
and oppress the so called lower caste.
( Punjab is worse even than UP and Bihar - at least there they are the ruling class now, Mayawati anyone ?? )

Why would the lower caste Sikh need to enter any high caste-dera ( SGPC or some other BS )
-- They have done as much for India as higher castes have done, in some cases more )
and yet they suffer so much. The followers of such deras call themselves neither Hindu nor Sikh
- they belong to dharma the true dharma of India - They don't define their religion accoridng
to casteists like SGPC clowns. The Dailts are rising, and no matter how much the oppression
and violence is, won't keep them down.

To hell with Bhindrenwale and his gang of racist Sikhs - The lower castes all saw their justice
in the 1980's and the way in which they treated them.

Thanks

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(1) BS according you, jattsikhs are akalis nd mazhbi sikhs are kangrasi..............interesting.......wow

(2)jinnia marriages hindu-sikhs dian hoiaan han unia hi tu low high(according you) csste ch labh sakda balke ustou v vadh......

(3)btw kede tara singh di tu gal karda???? vhp means hindu vishwa parishad na?.....je master tara singh di gal karda taan galat karda

(4)oh tainu BRAMEdkar diaan gallan ch bot yakeen hai......hai na? main tainu BRAmedkar diaan kush bot hor gallan dasuga ......


 
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Tell me, who oppresses Dalits in Punjab ?? Who kills and murders Dailts who try and rise up ?? Who rapes
and murders any 'choora'chumar' who dares to cross the upper caste Sikhs in the villages of Punjab ??
Is it the Bahmans ? NO.


Thanks

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tell me who started devdasi system.........sikhs? NO.....BAHMANS OFCOURSE

 
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Another example of 'tolerance' our the great 'religion'...

Hob-nobbing with the extremist constituency, the jathedar or head priest of the Sikh Takht Damdama Sahib,
Balwant Singh Nandgarh publicly offered to weigh in pure gold, "the brave Sikh who brings back
Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh’s head."

Both Nandgarh and Atinder Pal Singh’s proclamations dangerously echo the turbulent summer of 1978,
when following the Akali-Nirankari clash at Chowk Mehta on Baisakhi day, Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale(Brar)
offered a similar bounty for the then Nirankari chief’s head. Two Sikhs, including Ranjit Singh who was later
crowned Jathedar of the Akal Takht, actually carried out Bhindranwale’s bidding and assassinated
Baba Gurbachan Singh in Delhi. What ensued for the next ten years is history.

Thanks.

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what the hell nakli nirankarids did? attacked on unarmed sikhs with bullets........jo karuga so bharuga tainu kahdi fikar aa....nd us nirankari babe ne v SGGS di beadbi kiti c......sodh ditta singha ne

 

Ramta

Member
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In the days of Guru Gobind singh ji, he was given a rifle as a present. He wanted
to prove to the maharaja who gave him the rifle what are real sikh soldiers.

He asked the maharaja if he could use some of his soldiers for target practice
but the maharaja refused, he was not prepared to sacrafice his soldiers.
Then guru gobind singh ji called for his sikh soldiers and amongst his sikhs were
two SINGHS both father and son who were working in the stables, the minute
they heard their guru ask for his sikh soldiers for target practice, they both were
pushing each other out the way to get to him. From a distance you could
see these
two SINGHS approaching the guru. They were both from the chamar caste.

Now how many times in our Gurudwaras do they say that they were Chamars.
Have you heard about this historical incident?? How many times do they expose
the caste of these sikhs? While Dhanna has one hym in the holy book, the jatt's
jump up and down talking about Dhanna being a Jatt. What we say about Sikhi
is fine and dandy but our gurudwaras are pathetic in equating the people.
They have failed as institutions to create equality. How many times do they talk
about "Rangrete Guru Ke Bete"? How many times do they tell you that no sikh
Gurdwara has been opened in all over India or anywhere in the world in the memory
of low-caste sikh warrior. Recently, they opened a gurudwara in the memory
of Sardar Jeevan Singh (Rangrete Guru Ke Bete") and one of the sikh religious
leader when he went to the temple put a cloth on the picture of Jeevan Singh
in whose memory this sikh temple was built. How many times they tell you that
4 Piaras out of the 5, were low caste. How many times they tell you that Bhai Dit Singh
was a low-caste. How many times do they tell you that Bhai Sangat Singh gave his
life so that Guru Gobind Singh can escape from the battlefield to escape advancing
mughals. How many times do they do that? They talk aboout bravery of sikhs
who were high-castes and make sure that they mention that so and so was jatt etc.
But when the times comes for low caste soldiers, these people either underscore
their contribution or fail to mention the name. If Bhai Sangat Singh wasn't there,
there would have been no sikh religion today. Mughals would have finished off
Guru Gobind Singh and that would have been end of the beginning of sikhi.
(Some even say that Bhai Sangat Singh was made next guru of sikhs when Guru
Gobind Singh gave his dastar to him. However, high-caste sikhs fail to recognize
that and say that Guru Gobind Singh said that holy book is guru. There are doubts
about the authenticity of the incident whether GGS declared holy book as guru.
How can a book be a guru when all the 10 sikhs gurus condemned object worship? )

By and by ... tell me how many Sikh know that Hari Singh Nalwa was a chamar.
Have not the high-caste sikhs failed to mention that ?? Or downplay it ??

It's their duty not to teach caste to the next generation but they all do it.
Spread and Perpetuate it.

Thanks

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How many time we need to tell you......ke sikhism di main charaterstics aa caste system nu khatam karna

How many time we need to tell you......ke sikhan de guruan kade kise naal jaat paat da bhed bhav nai kita

How many time we need to tell you.......ke sikh ghaint aa :so sorry bale ghaint aa jina di bahaduri de charche videshan ch v hunde aa.....kyuke india di 2% population ne oh kamm kite jo 98% nai kar saki
How many time we need to tell you......Sikhan ch koi chamar/shoti/vaddi jaat nai aa......par brahaman-vaad da asar aje v kush haiga par time de naal naal oh v ghat rea hai......hun sikh caste system nu khatam karan vall vadh rae hai.......ik gal palle banh la.....jeda aa caste system aa na ih hai pandtan di den.......pandtan ne caste system shuru kita c .....aavde khan da dhakosla banaia c.....aavde kamm layi shoti jaat yani shuders tou mandirs dian buildings taan banvounde c par unha nu mandir ch enter hon di manahi c.....ih ajj v zari aa......(ik hor thread ch dasda haan ke kidaan kush din pela kerela ch pandtan ne mandir ik mandir nu shud kita kyuke oh ashud ho gaya c jadon ik mantri de munde ne authe matha tekia....mantri di galti ih c ke usdi mata isai c)......kiddan pandtan ne aavde matlab lai dev dasi (dalit prostitution only for pandits on the name of God) shuru kita........sikhism ch koi jaat-paat bhed bhav nai aa......pinda ch anpadhta hon karke aa sara kush c......par holi holi hun ih sabh theek ho rera hai.......par ih hai kisdi den c.....ofcourse pandtan di
How many time we need to tell you........ke kise v gurdware ch kise v caste da banda aa sakda hai....tu ik gal kai threads ch aakhi hai ke amritsar de ik gurdware ch do gate han ik jattan lai ate ik dalitaan lai....use thread ch main tainu gurdware da name ate jagah pushi c jo tu aje tak nai dassi.....tu aakda firrdan ke dalitan de gurdware alag han.......ih shareaam sikhi nu badnaam karan diaan chaalan ne.....ajeha kush nai aa.....gal ih aa aavdi sahulat lai har mohalle ch janta nede nava gurdwara bana laindi hai.....ise taran majhbi sikh kaum apne mohalle (vehde) ch gurdwara bana lainde han.....isda matlab ih nai aa ke je unha ne aavde vehde ch gurdwara bana lia taan unha nu doojian gurdwarian ch enter hon di manahi hai.......meri pure background hai.....main shuru tou pind ch hi padhia haan.....sade pind v ya kise v hor pind main ajj tak ih na vekia na sunia hai ke kise v pind de gurdware ch kise v dalit nu enter hon tou kade v rokia hove......fer tu sikhi nu badnaam karan da beeda kyu chukia hai?????

How many time we need to tell you.....ke sare jaane kise v panj piarian cho ik di respect taan nai karde ke oh jatt sikh aa balke sirf taan karde aa ke oh panj piarian cho ik hai ate sikh hai
How many time we need to tell you.....ke hari singh nalua di respect isde naal ghat nai jandi ke oh chamar c........jeda ajeha sochda v aa ustou ghatia banda koi nai.......oh taan ik mahaan hasti c.....ik sikh c......jisne abdali naal panga lia......hindu zanaanian nu usde kabze cho shudaia

How many time we need to tell you.......ke asi sabh sikhan da equally satikaar karde aa jinha di great contribution aa sikh history ch.......asi baba deep singh ji da v una hi satikaar karde haan jinna hari singh nalua ji da..........sade vaste isda koi mahna nai ke hari saingh ji chamaar jaati naal sambandhit c ate baba deep singh ji jatt jaati naal

How many time we need to tell you.....ke tu jattan nu bada udd ke lainda........kyu 22??

How many time we need to tell you.......ke tu sikhi nu badnaam kar rea hain

How many time we need to tell you........aa sabh karna shad de

How many time we need to tell you.....ke mere kole ajehe swaal aa jisda tere verge taan ki unha diaan sat pushtaan v nai de sakdiaan

How many time we need to tell you.....sare ik han.......parmatma ik hai....fer tu hamesha hinduism ate sikhism di tulna karan lag janda hain

How many time we need to tell you.....ke tu jisnu manda aa mann.......asi jisnu mande aa theek aa........fer aa sara siapa kyu karda?

How many time we need to tell you...... ke.......you are the one who is really pathetic
akna taan main hor v bathera kush aa....baki athne milde haan kyu mere hun tame ghatt aa
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While Dhanna has one hym in the holy book, the jatt's
jump up and down talking about Dhanna being a Jatt.
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ais gal da matbal zara khul ke dass.......yani thoda detail ch dass ke akna ki chaunda tu?
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Ramta

Member
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jattpunjabi,

How many time we need to tell you......ke sikhism di main charaterstics aa caste system nu khatam karna

Sikhs marry with Hindus of the same caste, while they still avoid marriage
with Sikhs of different castes. The acknowledgement of caste identities was
acceptable to the Gurus, for the Gurus themselves married their own children
according to traditional caste prescriptions. The anti-caste thrust of the Gurus’
teachings must be seen as a doctrine which referred to spiritual deliverance
and a firm rejection of injustice or hurtful discrimination based on caste status.
Total obliteration of caste identity was never implied.

Even Bhai Gurdasji addresses the Guru's as per their castes in his 'Vaaran'.

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The places of religious worship are governed by varied laws depending
on when and how and under what circumstances they were build. If they
were build by private organisations on land owned by them they have a
right to debar entry of people they do not approve of. Right to enter or the
right to membership to some private organisation or cooperative is
neither a fundamental right nor a birth right. Even the Supreme court
wouldn't force them not to exercise their right on land, organisation(even
if religious), or cooperative. If they own it, they can debar people from
entering. Women are not allowed to lead congregations or say Ardaas
in the Golden Temple.

If it's a historic place like Vaisho-devi or the Golden-Temple,
'Right of Entry' of anyone who wishes to enter cannot be curtailed.

Thanks

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pps309

Prime VIP
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The places of religious worship are governed by varied laws depending
on when and how and under what circumstances they were build. If they
were build by private organisations on land owned by them they have a
right to debar entry of people they do not approve of.

You Dumb guy.........how come you keep changing your statements in different threads..............In some threads you ar etalking about Religion being supreme to all and blah blah and here you are saying ke if I make a temple in my private territory and put a statue of any demiGod, I can debar low cate people to enter. You MORON once you made a temple or Gurudwara it do not belongs to you...it is no more private. It is religious, it is open it is public.....................Just that you bought the staue of a demi GOd and put money on construction of a building doesn't mean that you have bought the Dharma on that part of land.

Again I will say Hindu Dharma is not bad, bad are the people who do all this.

Right to enter or the
right to membership to some private organisation or cooperative is
neither a fundamental right nor a birth right. Even the Supreme court
wouldn't force them not to exercise their right on land, organisation(even
if religious), or cooperative. If they own it, they can debar people from
entering. Women are not allowed to lead congregations or say Ardaas
in the Golden Temple.
i was aware that one day you Moron will raise this. I have answer to this. Ardas in Darbar Sahib is always done by a Singh and all the ladies are allowed to attend the ardas unlike a lot of temples where ladies are not allowed.
The first five Singhs were male in Gender so a Singh is given prefernce to do Ardas. Mata Gujri has the honor of being the Mother of Khalsa religion, this only proves that in Sikhism Female is given equal respect.
There are Gurudwaras where in absence of Amritdhari Singhs ladies do the ardas, path and Hukamnama...everything.

In some religions ladies are not allowed to wear Janeu, Ladies are not allowed to worship Hanuman (especially during menstrual periods), ladies are not allowed to enter Sharda Mata temple. All that is called as unequality of women.

If it's a historic place like Vaisho-devi or the Golden-Temple,
'Right of Entry' of anyone who wishes to enter cannot be curtailed.



Thanks

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Not only women, sikhism give respect to all the religions. FYI Gurudwara Harmandir Sahib da neev patthar Guru Arjan Dev ji ne Mia Meer kolo rakhwaya si.
Ess guru ghar de char gate ess lai aa ke kisse bhi varan/dharam da banda har passeyo aa sakda aa.....Everyone is welcome.....from lady, to kida, to hindus, to muslims, to christians, jainis, buddhis, korhi, sonne, gande, change, marre sabde lai gate hamesa khulle aa. Osse nu hi rabb da ghar kahi da....Rabb de ghar de gate kisse lai band nahi hunde...........

Jo Bole So Nihal---SAT SRI AKAL
 

suhanpreet

Suhanpreet Kaur
very gud jatt punjabi bada vadhiya answer ditta no matter ramta is right somewhere bt bt the fact is dat ki our guru sahiban's intension was gud everything takes time Mr Ramta caste system is thousands year old and sikhism is just 300 sumthing it wl take time to break the shackles bt m sure v wl b able to eradicate it .its better to try to solve the problem than just to highlight it at least i know many many sikh families who are truly sikh baki as jatt punjabi says its the illetracy of villages dat is d real cause :med so hope fr d best......
 
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