Bhai Gurdasji's explanation of WAHEGURU

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thanks bulleshah aa tu bada good wala kamm kita ......lagda tu bhai sahib dian sarian vaaran padhian lagdian.......main v bhai sahib ji di gurbani tere naal modha jod ke post karunga

ok first vaar di translation ih aa.......main akia kyu na pehli vaar tou shuru kita jaave

<ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">Hindus and Moslems have their two ways. Moslems call it Mazhab and Hindus call it Varna. Hindus call themselves Gurus and Moslems Pirs. Hindus call their followers Shishya and Moslems theirs Murid (But both trap themselves with falsehood). Hindus worship (God) as Rama and Moslems call Him Rahim, and they indulge in ego. Moslems call pilgrimage to Mecca Ziarat and Hindus adore the Ganges and Varanasi. Moslems fast and call it Rozas, Hindus call it Vart. They pray by prostrating on the ground. But nothing is equal to the Gursikh who abandons his ego, 'I am ness'. (Bhai Gurdas Var 38 Pauri 9) </ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify"> </ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">Sunni, Shia, Rafzi sects of the Moslems pleases many. Mulhids (Atheists) do not believe in God and are lost in doubt. Christians and followers of Moses are lost in doubt and ego. Europeans, Armenians and Egyptians are too proud. Kalandars who wear black are not worth two shells. None is equal the Gursikh who has sold himself to the Guru. (Bhai Gurdas Var 38 Pauri 11)</ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify"> </ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">Hindus read and explain the Vedas; the Moslems recite their books. Moslems like the name Khuda and Hindus call Him Parmeshwar. Moslems read their Kalma (Quran) and practice circumcision, while Hindus wear Janeau (sacred thread) and apply Tilak.</ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">Mecca is sacred to Moslems and Varanasi to Hindus. Moslems practice Rozas (and say the prayer); Hindus call the fast Vart and adore Hari. The four religions (sects) of the Moslems, four Varnas, and six systems give different education. Moslems Pirs covet their Murids (disciples) and the Hindus also covet their followers. Hindus believe in Ten Avatars but the Moslems believe in one Rehman. In fact they are pushing and pulling (fighting) for no profit. (Bhai Gurdas Var 39, Pauri 10)</ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify"> </ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">Those who are addicted to the congregation serve themselves of the cup of His love and describe the indescribable. They break the rosary and do not meditate any more by counting, because for them Ram and Rahim are the same. They consider the world a game of chess. They cross the barrier of Maya; they take the cup of His love and enter in themselves. They pass the three stages and enter the fourth (sublime) state. For them Waheguru and Khuda are the same and do not fight over words. They merge in the word and make manifest the true word. They recognize the Eternal as the True King and love the Truth. (Bhai Gurdas Var 39, Pauri II)</ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify"> </ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">We do not accept the authority of. The Vedas, neither that of Simritis and Puranas. We worship neither Bhairva, nor Ganesha. We recognize neither Tithis nor Omens, nor days. Neither Rahu, Ketu, Shani, Shukar, Sun nor Moon. We do not believe a bit in Sandhya, Sutak, Caste, Varna, Jantar, Mantar, Fasting, Homa or Shradh. Disciples of the Tenth Master, Khalsa Panth is distinct. Really ignorant is he who calls Khalsa as Hindu. (Kabit Bhai Gurdas Ji)</ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify"> </ADDRESS><ADDRESS style="MARGIN-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 10px" align="justify">We acknowledge One, Eternal, Primal Lord. The whole expanse has originated from Him. Forgetting the Creator we do not worship any mortal (created one). Guru Granth is our faith, our support. We have abandoned all distinction of caste. We are friends of all and love all. Love of all is like that of Lotus in water. Distinct is the Khalsa of Guru Nanak. (Kabit Bhai Gurdas Ji)</ADDRESS>

thanx for da post jattpunjabi veer

no worries

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jattpunjabi,

Why delete external links?
Why not let everyone read "Vaaran Bhai Gurdasji" for Herself/Himself?

The information that you provided in no way cancells "VAHIGURU MANTRA" of Bhai Gurdasji.

Everything it says applies to the Sikh of today too.

"nothing is equal to the Gursikh who abandons his ego"

Click to expand...

Now the point is what exactly is a Gursikh?
What about Namdev? He preceded the Guru's but abandoned his ego anyway...

Was Namdev a Sikh ?? Was Kabir a Sikh ?? If yes Sikhi existed before Nanak. Am I not right ??

Hindus read and explain the Vedas; the Moslems recite their books. Moslems like the name Khuda and Hindus call Him Parmeshwar. Moslems read their Kalma (Quran) and practice circumcision, while Hindus wear Janeau (sacred thread) and apply Tilak.

Click to expand...

The Sikh read and explain the Guru Granht and recite it. Sikh prefer the word Vahiguru(What is Vahiguru).

Muslims practice circumcision, Hindu's wear the janneyu and the Sikh...

What about the five K's ??

And what about this :
"kabeer preeti ik siau keey aan dubhidhaa jaai; bhaavey laambe kes karu bhaavey gharari mundaai"
(Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.)
-- KABIR Source: Adi Granth, p. 1365

Customs and traditions evolve over time. And don't you think that if there is one custom that should have been eradicated long ago is the parampara of carrying the Granth on ones head and instead reading it. A ritul is a ritual be it Vaishnavi, Shaiviite or Sikh or Jaini...

The question is why are the rituals of others ALWAYS mere rituals
and the rituals of the Sikh some great "discipline" ????


Guru Amar Das (and in Bhai Gurdas Varan) mentions the daily routine for Sikhs in Gurbani (psge 305). One could easily claim these are rituals.

I have never been again rituals because they help us define ourselves and gives us a sense of being a part of a "collective". Rituals (everyones rituals) have been central to the social imagination of humans since ages and cannot be done away with.
And Each may continue to call them "disiplines".

And besides is this not what we have been telling our children...that Sikhi is anti superstition and anti ritual ??
Or was that about giving up the rituals of the Brahmana and adopting custom-made ones ??

Does Gurbani encourage these is what I ask. The Guru's were not God-send. They were derivates of the environment tye were born in.

Read Param-Jyot

Moslems Pirs covet their Murids (disciples) and the Hindus also covet their followers. Hindus believe in Ten Avatars but the Moslems believe in one Rehman.

Click to expand...

We Sikh too have an initiation theory, don't we ?


As to the Hindu belief in ten avatars allow me to :

‘BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESH [SHIVA] the three demigods were created [by God].
He gave BRAHMA the VEDAS and involved them in it’s worship.
Ten Avatars did king RAMA [VISHNU] take.
He attacked and killed demons but all in accordance with God’s command.
God did SHIVA serve but he too did not find his limits.
Attaining true value he created his [heavenly] throne.
He has set the world to task and concealed himself.
He makes all function this Karma is divinely ordained.’
‘Shri Guru-Granth-Ji’, Raag Malaar, Pa.1279

Those who are addicted to the congregation serve themselves of the cup of His love and describe the indescribable. They break the rosary and do not meditate any more by counting, because for them Ram and Rahim are the same. They consider the world a game of chess. They cross the barrier of Maya; they take the cup of His love and enter in themselves. They pass the three stages and enter the fourth (sublime) state. For them Waheguru and Khuda are the same and do not fight over words. They merge in the word and make manifest the true word. They recognize the Eternal as the True King and love the Truth. (Bhai Gurdas Var 39, Pauri II)

Click to expand...

This is something that more than me it's you who need to understand!!
What Gurdasji says here has always been central to the imagination of the 'East'. Ram, Rahim, Tao, Mao all are ONE. And Vahiguru too. They all are limbs of one another, made as they are of one essense, when the calamities of time afflict one limb, how can the others remail at rest...

The 'Self' (Atman, the timeless indweller, the object-subject of his “mystical experience”) is beyond worldly divisions like those between different religions and sects. The Self is neither black nor white, neither big nor small, neither Hindu nor Muslim, neither this nor that( a decidedly Hindu stand). That Self (the objectless self-contained consciousness) is beyond the qualities that make for difference between human beings.

Liberation is always personal. So beliefs like We-Sikh-are-the-only-real-GURSIKH" smacks of Egotism...The self isn't Sikh either...

Thanks

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BulleShah said:

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jattpunjabi,

Why delete external links?
Why not let everyone read "Vaaran Bhai Gurdasji" for Herself/Himself?

The information that you provided in no way cancells "VAHIGURU MANTRA" of Bhai Gurdasji.

Everything it says applies to the Sikh of today too.




Now the point is what exactly is a Gursikh?
What about Namdev? He preceded the Guru's but abandoned his ego anyway...

Was Namdev a Sikh ?? Was Kabir a Sikh ?? If yes Sikhi existed before Nanak. Am I not right ??




The Sikh read and explain the Guru Granht and recite it. Sikh prefer the word Vahiguru(What is Vahiguru).

Muslims practice circumcision, Hindu's wear the janneyu and the Sikh...

What about the five K's ??

And what about this :
"kabeer preeti ik siau keey aan dubhidhaa jaai; bhaavey laambe kes karu bhaavey gharari mundaai"
(Kabir, when you are in love with the One God, duality and alienation depart. You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald.)
-- KABIR Source: Adi Granth, p. 1365

Customs and traditions evolve over time. And don't you think that if there is one custom that should have been eradicated long ago is the parampara of carrying the Granth on ones head and instead reading it. A ritul is a ritual be it Vaishnavi, Shaiviite or Sikh or Jaini...

The question is why are the rituals of others ALWAYS mere rituals
and the rituals of the Sikh some great "discipline" ????


Guru Amar Das (and in Bhai Gurdas Varan) mentions the daily routine for Sikhs in Gurbani (psge 305). One could easily claim these are rituals.

I have never been again rituals because they help us define ourselves and gives us a sense of being a part of a "collective". Rituals (everyones rituals) have been central to the social imagination of humans since ages and cannot be done away with.
And Each may continue to call them "disiplines".

And besides is this not what we have been telling our children...that Sikhi is anti superstition and anti ritual ??
Or was that about giving up the rituals of the Brahmana and adopting custom-made ones ??

Does Gurbani encourage these is what I ask. The Guru's were not God-send. They were derivates of the environment tye were born in.

Read Param-Jyot




We Sikh too have an initiation theory, don't we ?


As to the Hindu belief in ten avatars allow me to :

‘BRAHMA, VISHNU, MAHESH [SHIVA] the three demigods were created [by God].
He gave BRAHMA the VEDAS and involved them in it’s worship.
Ten Avatars did king RAMA [VISHNU] take.
He attacked and killed demons but all in accordance with God’s command.
God did SHIVA serve but he too did not find his limits.
Attaining true value he created his [heavenly] throne.
He has set the world to task and concealed himself.
He makes all function this Karma is divinely ordained.’
‘Shri Guru-Granth-Ji’, Raag Malaar, Pa.1279




This is something that more than me it's you who need to understand!!
What Gurdasji says here has always been central to the imagination of the 'East'. Ram, Rahim, Tao, Mao all are ONE. And Vahiguru too. They all are limbs of one another, made as they are of one essense, when the calamities of time afflict one limb, how can the others remail at rest...

The 'Self' (Atman, the timeless indweller, the object-subject of his “mystical experience”) is beyond worldly divisions like those between different religions and sects. The Self is neither black nor white, neither big nor small, neither Hindu nor Muslim, neither this nor that( a decidedly Hindu stand). That Self (the objectless self-contained consciousness) is beyond the qualities that make for difference between human beings.

Liberation is always personal. So beliefs like We-Sikh-are-the-only-real-GURSIKH" smacks of Egotism...The self isn't Sikh either...

Thanks

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Click to expand...

well bulleshah......teri ik link ik dooji forum da v c nd for ur kind information anytype of external link are not allowed on unp.......got it.......jo v meri information tu aakh rea hain oh bhai gurdas ji dian vaaran di translation hai......nd mainu nai lagda ke oh kise taran naal kise gall nu cancel vagera kardi aa.....nd dooji gal.....SGGS wich jini v baani aa oh sirf sikh gurus di hi nai aa.......SGGS wich sikh guruan samet bhagats (kabir ji, baba farid ji, namdev ji, ravidas ji, beni ji trilochan ji, jaidev ji, surdas ji, sadhana ji, parmanand ji ji, ramanand ji, pipa ji, dhanna ji, sain ji, bhikhan ji, surday ji, mardana ji), kavi balwand ji, sata ji, ate bhatts ( bhalh ji, balh ji, bhikha ji, gayand ji, harbans ji, jalap ji, kirat ji, kalshar ji, mathura ji, nalh ji, salh ji) di baani v shaamil hai......ate ih akhan di lod nai aa ke kabir ji sikh c........i wonder ke tere father ik gursikh aa ate bade hi soojhvan manukh aa phir v tainu aje tak nai pata ke SGGS wich sikh guruaan tou bina non sikh poets, bhatts ate bhagats di v bani shamil aa.....ate mere veer ihi taan SGGS di uniqueness aa......ise layi taan sikh poori duniya da kush hi percentage han par sada dharam granth world famous aa.....main tainu aavdi ik hor post wich dasanga ke non sikh ki aakde aa SGGS bare sari duniya de.....is layi tainu ik sikh hon da maan hona chaida aa.......tainu khush hona chaida aa ke tu us kaum wich janam liya hai jisdi total percentage sare world ch 1 v nai honi par oh harek field ch agge han.....koi field lai la sikhan ne mallan maarian hi aa.....world de scientist, doctor vagera vekh la .......so veer ih sade SGGS di mahanta aa ke sikhan de dharam granth sahib ch sikhan de guruan tou bina v bani shamil aa ........kyu aa........ih concept jaanan di kosish kar........nd teeji gal ke jedi tu kabir ji di bani di example ditti aa us baare.......sirf ik line nu hi lai ke na baith..........main tainu pela hi dass chukkia haan ik post wich ke SGGS de harek shabad di alag apni jagah utte importance aa.......tu sirf ik line na lai ke baith poora shabad nai balke poori baani padh ate phir jaan ke is da asli meaning ki aa.....sirf do taran de lok ih kamm karde han jo tu karan lagga aa......ik taan oh moorakh jo aavda matlab sidh karan layi bani da aavde hisab naal matlab kadhde han yani jedi line aavde matlab di lagdi aa us di history ya ih nai vekde ih kyu liki aa bus aavda ullu sidha karde han......so sirf ik line utte na ja.......chouthi gall je koi ih aakhe ke body dhakan layi kapde poune zaroori aa ate koi usnu ritual aake taan ritual hone zaroori v aa.......nd ik post ch dhillon ne sahi akia c ke codes bina koi dharam chal nai sakda.......sahi akia c......wiah de codes vagera.....sadi life ch dukh sukh aounde hi rende aa......koi jamda aa ate koi marda aa.....kai hor gallan........hun ih taan zaroori nai aa na......is tou bina taan gaddi naio chaldi na.......

ok bulleshah kush gallan dass.........

.........tera keda dharam aa????
.........ki tainu aavda dharam asha lagda ke nai?
..........je aavda nai taan hor keda dharam tainu asha lagda?
..........tu aa sara kush sikh dharam nu defame karan layi kyu karda?

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jattpunjabi,

..........tu aa sara kush sikh dharam nu defame karan layi kyu karda?

Click to expand...

I am not defaming anyone or anything.
All I did was post Gurdasji's "Vahiguru Mantar" as it is.

Now as per Bhai Gudasji VAHIGURU is a term derived by combining
Va of Vishnu, Ha of Hari, Ga of Gobind(Krishna) and Ra of Ram.

Bhai Gurdasji is not an ordinary Human being like you or me. He is considered the first interpreter of Gurbani. His writings are considered key to understanding the Sikh holy scriptures. He wrote 40 vars (ballads) and 556 kabits (both forms of Punjabi poetry). These writings are considered the best specimens of Sikh literature and philosophy. He also had the opportunity to be the scribe of Guru Granth Sahib or Adi Granth, the holiest Sikh scripture that was compiled by Guru Arjan Dev Ji, the fifth Sikh Guru, in 1604.

The compilation of Guru Granth Sahib was completed in 1601. It took almost 11 years to complete this task. Bhai Gurdas not only wrote the Adi Granth as dictated by Guru Arjan Dev, he also supervised the writings of four other scribes, namely Bhai Haria, Bhai Sant Das, Bhai Sukha and Bhai Manasa Ram who were writing various Sikh scriptures.

Bhai Gurdas was not only an interpreter of Sikh scriptures and preacher of Sikhism, he was a walking encyclopaedia of Sikhism.

Thanks

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well jediaan teriaan posts aa usnu koi v vekh ke iho akhuga jo main akhia aa.....je anycase tu simple discussion karni hundi taan tera way of writing hor hona c.......ok ik gak dass from ur very first post........granth ke granthi........ki ih tu khud likhi aa ke kiton chak ke copy paste kiti aa???? je tu khud likhi taan kadon ate kyu likhi????

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jattpunjabi,

"Granth Vs Granthi" hi naheen meriyaan kaee postaan tuhanoo duje forums te milan geeyaan. mrsingh de naa te.

Copy paste hi kitee aa par apni hi post ton...

Tusee dasso kitthe vekhi uthe edit kar ke dikhaunga...

Thanks

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ok bulleshah utte post no. 7 ch main kush hor v kush pushia c tainun veer.....ih v dass ke tere hisab naal sikh religion tere mutabil keho jeha hai???? ki gun ate augan han sikhism de ????

haaan bulle bai baki swala de v jwaab dede..

wud love to know about ur views

jattpunjabi said:

ok bulleshah utte post no. 7 ch main kush hor v kush pushia c tainun veer.....ih v dass ke tere hisab naal sikh religion tere mutabil keho jeha hai???? ki gun ate augan han sikhism de ????

Click to expand...

This copy-past from one of my previous posts is relevent here :

It is a truism that there are always ups and downs in peoples’ lives and cultures depending on vicissitudes that they pass through. From this extremely brief view of development of ‘Devotion’, recurrence of casteism and rebellions against it in Hindu Society appear to be one such phenomenon. It may also be worth noticing that most of the rebellions against Caste System were initiated by Brahmins. Guru Nanak also belonged to an upper caste.

The great genius of Guru Nanak was that he :

1) Simplified the process of devotion (by chanting) to the utmost and named it ‘Naam Simarana’. He had realized that understanding of Vedas esp. the ‘Advaitic philosophy’ of Upanishads for a man of the world was difficult, as availability of teachers had become difficult. This achievement of simplification is even more remarkable for he did not lose the philosophical essence of complex hymns of the Upanishads.

2) Established the practice of group chanting daily in a regular and disciplined manner. Thus he developed social harmony and love.

They wan't us to believe that the real maan of the Grantha is by carrying it on ones head and fanning it so as flies don't sit on it. Put it to sleep at night...wake it up every morning...
(I believe the real maan one can accord the Grantha is by reading it.)​

The Granthis real reason is something else. They don't wan't the people to read the Granth and want people to continue to rely on 'them' for spiritual guidance. Were the people really to read the Granth won't then true Dharma revive and awaken in their lives thus rendering the clergy unemployed denying them of their chai-naashta ?? ​

And how many people know that Sikhism is against this-or-that sanstha
- be it SGPC or DamDami Taksal - laying propreitorial claims on Faith ??​

Real spirituality will have to sacrifice all hankerings for power(including the privelege of being the sole custodian and articulator of Rehat-Maryada), along with the manichean view that the world is split between forces of absolute good(a select spiritual elite) and evil(the rest).​

I am surprised our Granthi's don't know such a simple thing when it comes to understanding the message of Gurus. Guru is not a simple human being they should know that. His conciousness is not the constricted conciousness of a normal human.

Now...​

I never said don't be a Sikh...don't follow the Guru.
All I say be a Sikh...follow the Guru.​

But first read it.​

Believe me, thats precisely what I want you to do. Read, even cursoraly, The Guru-Granthji. Believe me its a real Guru. Once are through it you will never feel the need to carry the granth on head and fan it to keep away flies or accompany some palkhi-yatra-road-show...It won't make an einstein out of you but it certainly will "awaken" your intellect.​

What I think...​

I tell you, the Guru or the Guru Granth doesn't even talk about God. They teach about one supreme primordial reality which is substratum of everything. It is my perception that modern Sikh scholars have taken the Christists picture of HInduism as Hinduism and have tried to diffrentiate Sikhism from Hinduism. A spiritual system ( I don't consider Abrahmic cults to be spiritual systems they are theological system) is known by its philosphy not by its rituals. Rituals are mere means not the goal. Goal is the realization of the truth as claimed by the Philosphy.​

The "Akal Purush" of the Guru-Granth is not different from the "Self".​

The "Self", the objectless self-contained consciousness, is nirguna, beyond the qualities that make for difference between human beings. As a contemporary spiritual teacher said: “What is Self-realization? By what does a ‘realized’ person distinguish himself? Very simple, the special thing about him is this: one who is ‘realized’, realizes that he is the same as everybody else.” The Self has no separate identity, neither individual nor communal.​

When we get to this conceptual level, we can see that communal identity(even Sikh identity) in Sikh tradition is a superficial reality, relatively acceptable and inevitable in the temporal world, but unreal from the angle of the timeless and colourless Self.​

Thanks​

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interesting hai. lagda agge nalon sare ithe sudhar gaye hun

ok bulleshah.......
well bulleshah sabh tou pela main tainu ik gal akni aa..Guru Granth Sahib Ji da name hamesha respect naal likhi..is tou pela v main ate kai hor members v tainu ih dass chukke hai..tu sirf granth likhda hain nd to b very frank its not acceptable for any sikh..sade layi ih sade living guru han..please agge tou khyal rakhin je tu kise post wich v SGGS nu granth ya grantha likhia taan teri sari post delete kar ditti javegi..ihi nahi je kise v post ch sikh guru ya kise v sikhi related respectable character di disrespect show hundi hove oh sari post delete kar ditti javegi..ik do jagah utte tu granthji v likhia hai oh theek hai..ok hun aounde haan discussuin layi..tu likhia hai ke ih kiven pata laggu ke guru ne ki akia hai? ih taan veer clear hi sabh ksh SGGS saheb ch likhia hai..is nu kise tou pushan di ki lod aa???? aa jeda tu muhavra likhia hai bilkul betuk hai....ik na samajh ate agiani di nishani aa....bulleshah mainu nai lagda ke tu sikh aa....je tu sikh hoven taan tainu SGGS di mahanta da pata hove....ih sirf ik granth nai aa....sikhan de ih living guru aa....Sri guru Gobind Singh ji ne SGGS nu next guru banaia c....harek pehle guru next guru nu guru thaapia c ate sare sikhan ne ih mania c....jiven pele guru ne dooje guru noo banaia ate sarian ne unha nu aavde dooje guru mania ise taran ih 10th guru tak chalda reha....10th guru ne SGGS nu next guru thaapia.....us din tou SGGS sade living guru han....is layi asi unha da use taran hi respect karde haan jis taran guru di karidi hai...so je ik simple granth hunda taan is nu koi v kiven v chak ke leja sakda c.....jiven hor religion ch karde han par nai aithi situation different hai....ih ik kitab maatir nai aa....is layi palke utte birajman karke badi respect naal aavde head utte paalki rakhidi aa......jis taran ik insaan saunda hai ate jaagda hai use taran living guru nu samjhia janda hai....ih ik respect hai .....baaki SGGS di baani samjhana alag gal hai....ih ik shardha hai.....pyar hai....satikaar hai jo ik guru nu ditta janda hai....nd jadon tere father ne kise amritdhari ne kise nu pishia c taan usne sahi akia c ke maan nai hona.....yaani respect nai honi....kai pata ki karde aa SGGS da parkaash ghar karde aa ate ghar ohi meat/daru chalde han.....ih taan bilkul beadbi hoi na.....nale gal sirf meat/daru tak seemit nai aa.......je guru ji ghar aa taan as a living guru hon karke bot gallan da khyal rakhna painda hai.....ise layi akia ke maan nai ditta jaanda......nd believe me its 100% true....ise layi sikh dharam baki dharma nalo kush vakhra hai.....sikhism dian apnia kush unique charecterstics aa.....ise layi taan sikhi kaim aa.....mashoor aa......sare world ch mashoor aa.......bahrle deshan ch ajehe bot angrej han jo sikh bane han......nd believe me main khud dekhia hai ke world ch bahut respect hai.....par bade afsos di gal hai aavde hi desh ch kush ajehe lok han jinha di sikhan ne rakhia kiti c kade, ate unha nu zaaliman de panjia cho bachaia c kade par ajj oh kaum sadi kaum nu bad-name de rahi hai....unha vaaste sikhan ne kade bot kurbaania dittian par kush ajehe be-gairat lok han jo karodan rupia ise layi la rahe han ke sikhism nu badnaam kar skia....asli gal hai unha tou vadh rahi sikhi dekhi nai jaandi...they just jealous...anyway.....sikhi hamesha kaim rahi hai....unha dina ch v jadon sikhan de siran de mull painde c....jeda kise sikh da sir vadh ke lejanda c usnu paise milde c......ate......ajj v kaim hai........ate hamesha kaim rahegi.......taan tu ki akna chounda hai???? lagda tu kush confuse aa......naale taan aki janda ke its real guru ate naal hi aki janda ke road side palki yatra karan di lod nai........ki asi sanu real guru nu respect nai deni chaidi??????? je real guru aa taan satikaar karna sada farz aa.....yaar ajjkal janta aa corrupt mantriaa di kini chamchi maardi aa.....hai na???? ate ki asi aavde real guru da satikaar na kariyea???????..............well hun rae gall damdami taksaal ate sgpc di.....mainu hairaani aa ke ur father was amritdhari par tu aa shotian shotian gallan v nai jaanda......ok sun fer.....damdami taksaal sade 10th guru Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaaj ne shuru kiti c ate oh hi pele jathedaar c.....us tou pishon SGGS nu gurgaddi saumpan pishon baba Deep Singh Ji saheed nu damdama sahib bhej ditta c......nd for ur kind information Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed dooje jathedaar c.....nd so on.....Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji tou lai ke ajj tak continuousily damdami taksaal de jathedaar bande aa rae aa.....taksaal da mukh udesh sikhan nu educate karna hai.....sahi gurbani nu pronounce karna sikhouna hai.....gurbaani de sahi meaning dasne han.....ate hor bada kush.....ate jede gurbani da galat meaning kadh ke us nu aavde matlab layi istemaal karde aa oh v dekhde aa.....actually damdami taksal sikh uni aa......

The great genius of Guru Nanak was that he :

1) Simplified the process of devotion (by chanting) to the utmost and named it ‘Naam Simarana’. He had realized that understanding of Vedas esp. the ‘Advaitic philosophy’ of Upanishads for a man of the world was difficult, as availability of teachers had become difficult.

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peli gal how can u b so damn sure he understood vedas or he was too muc into vedas..

and u r sayin da availability of da teachers was gettin difficult..i disagree.. i say at da time when guru nanak dev ji was born den at dat time da availability of da pandits was at its peak..dats why we say dat age was of brahmanwaad ..

5) He started teaching congregations his message through devotional songs (not just poems but musical compositions), obviously one of the most attractive and effective methods. This was done for the first time probably after the compositions of ‘Saama Veda’ and some Upanishads.​

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u r wrng my friend.. it was not done for the first time after saam veda.. after saam veda yajur veda was developed and after dat atharva veda was developed too.. and saam veda's musical rules were used in both the preceding vedas..

so by merely sayin dat guru nanak dev ji used saam veda and on top of dat ,dat too for the first time for his teachings den i belive it wont b appropriate..

The goal of both Sikhism and Hinduism is to achieve happiness here and now and also to attain ‘Moksha’ hereafter i.e. liberation from the cycle of birth and death.​

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i think not only dese two but infact all othe religions says so..

"This is a Grantha and your very own Grantha". Do to the Grantha what a Grantha is meant to be done with.​

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grantha naam di koi cheej ni sikhi ch its guru granth sahib ji and he is treated as a living guru..

My father once asked an amritdhari whether he has a Grantha at home. He said "What will I do with it".
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kamaal ae yaar thode dad ta wade ne sade sareya to.. una nu ta pata hona chaida ke guru granth sahib ji koi just granth ni

They wan't us to believe that the real maan of the Grantha is by carrying it on ones head and fanning it so as flies don't sit on it. Put it to sleep at night...wake it up every morning...
(I believe the real maan one can accord the Grantha is by reading it.)​

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yea u rite real maan ta by readin it and following it bt told u bro sikhs treat guru granth sahib ji as living so as we all humans use fans garmi to bachan lai dats why we follow da ritual of fanning it. te by keepin it on our head we simply try to give utmost respect as elders be it our parnets, y akoi v mahapurursh deserve a place dat is utmost .. apne sir te bthake rakhda eho je mahapushaa nu ..hope u gettin wt m tryin to say

The Granthis real reason is something else. They don't wan't the people to read the Granth and want people to continue to rely on 'them' for spiritual guidance.

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u cant impose u rown beliefs here bro..granthis real job is to make people understand da teachings of guru granth sahib ji..so by sayin dat dey want us to rely upon dem is wrong..



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And how many people know that Sikhism is against this-or-that sanstha
- be it SGPC or DamDami Taksal - laying propreitorial claims on Faith ??

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dese sansthas were made only at da times wen sikhism religion needd dem. .a time came wen a sanstha was required to spread sikhism and to save sikhism .. and why save sikhism .reasons evrybody knows..




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Real spirituality will have to sacrifice all hankerings for power(including the privelege of being the sole custodian and articulator of Rehat-Maryada), along with the manichean view that the world is split between forces of absolute good(a select spiritual elite) and evil(the rest).​

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I never said don't be a Sikh...don't follow the Guru.
All I say be a Sikh...follow the Guru.​

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well said .. i appreciate dat..

Believe me, thats precisely what I want you to do. Read, even cursoraly, The Guru-Granthji. Believe me its a real Guru. Once are through it you will never feel the need to carry the granth on head and fan it to keep away flies or accompany some palkhi-yatra-road-show...It won't make an einstein out of you but it certainly will "awaken" your intellect.

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nagar kirtan is not a road show and yes we do nagar kirtan to spread da msg of sikhi .. no wu mustb wonderin how.. young generation is goin far frm religion dey dnt visit gurudaras masjids mandirs etc.. by simply doin nagar kirtans on gurpurabs and all , we show not only respect and rembrance to gurus and their shaheedis but we also make da young generation to remeber and make dem try to understand what is being done and why and who wr our gurus wt dey did wt was da msg of dere teachings etc etc..

so nagar kirtans are very important also..


and as far as guru granth shaib ji being plaved on head .. its just a token of respect utmost respect..
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Sikh scholars have taken the Christists picture of HInduism as Hinduism and have tried to diffrentiate Sikhism from Hinduism.

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well who says dey have tried to differntiate da two religions? .. cmon man dey will try to differentiate only if dey wud have been da same at da first place... both are different and no need to differentiate is required ..as all religions give one msg dat god is one so its our preception dat both dese religions are one and da same though they r not..​

The "Akal Purush" of the Guru-Granth is not different from the "Self".

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m sorry i have never heared a word liek akal purush.. akal purukh jarur suneya main bt not akal purush..

Thanks​

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jattpunjabi,


OK...Not the Granth but

Guru-Granthtji.

Fine ??

Thanks

BulleShah said:

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jattpunjabi,


OK...Not the Granth but

Guru-Granthtji.

Fine ??

Thanks

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haan agge naalon farak aa

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nagar kirtan is not a road show and yes we do nagar kirtan to spread da msg of sikhi
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Why is Sikh juloos some great spiritual exercise but a Hindu one nonsense ??

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Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;">
well who says dey have tried to differntiate da two religions? .. cmon man dey will try to differentiate only if dey wud have been da same at da first place... both are different and no need to differentiate is required ..as all religions give one msg dat god is one so its our preception dat both dese religions are one and da same though they r not..

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If we accept the historical definition of 'Hindu' given by the Muslims, there is simply no doubt about it: all Sikhs fall under the heading 'Indian Pagans, for they are neither Muslims nor Christians, Jews or Parsis. So, Sikhs are Hindus.

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thanx